85: Why You Should Think Purpose over Profit as an Entrepreneur
Behind Their Success: Episode 85
John: That's what drives the ongoing engagement when times get tough and that's ultimately
what drives the success. where the purpose-driven stuff is something that you are really
engaged with yourself, that you're passionate about, you know, that's what drives the knowledge
development.
Paden: Hello everybody. Welcome to Behind Their Success Podcast. I am Paden Squires, the
host, and today we have on John Brumley. John is the Visionary founder and CEO of Charitable
Impact, Canada's leading online giving platform that has helped facilitate over $1.5 billion in
donations. John began his career in corporate finance with PWC and RBC capital markets
before immersing himself in the world of charity law. He was inspired to launch Charitable
Impact in 2011 with a mission to make charitable giving more accessible, meaningful, and
impactful for others. John's a two time TEDx speaker and recipient of business in Vancouver's
40 under 40 award. John is leader in philanthropy, but also [00:01:00] passionate about
advocating for empowering individuals. John, that's a pretty nice bio you got there, man.
Welcome on the show,
John: Yeah. Well, as you would know, I didn't write it myself.
Paden: right?
John: My, my bio would be like, my name's John. Nice to meet you.
Paden: It's like John, I'm just a regular guy.
John: That's right. Yeah.
Paden: Well, John's so charitable impact, right? So tell us, what that is and, what you're really
passionate about.
John: Well, our mission at Charitable Impact is to increase access too, and participation in, and
the benefit people feel from charitable giving. So we're really passionate about that. We're,
we're, we're not here to say, Hey, you should give to this cause or you should give to that cause
we're really, uh, more about working with the donor and empowering them to.
Just participate in giving the way they want to. Right. So we, we actually have a brand promise
at Chamber Impact. It's, you are giving your way our support. Uh, and so we're a very donor-
centered, uh, giving platform and [00:02:00] giving sort of service donor service, service center,
right? Because we believe there's, nor really to go to get help with your giving in an objective
way.
Paden: Yeah. what was like the pivotal moment or insight?
What, pre 2011, I guess what told John that like, Hey, this is a problem that I want to attack.
John: I was already in the. Charitable kind of advisory space. I was always already working full-
time, with both donors and charities, helping them structure, like create their own charities,
helping them understand how, how to navigate the sector, how to understand it, how to take
action in it, et cetera. And what jumped out at me was that like there was nowhere for them to go
to get advice that was focused on what they wanted to do with their giving journey.
And so just to juxtapose that they could go to a charity and, and get sold, like, you know,
someone would wanna fundraise from 'em, someone would want their money, that that's not a.
Problem we need to solve in the sector, but where the [00:03:00] individual could go or where
the corporation could go to get much more objective advice tailored to what they're trying to do.
That, that's what I realized there wasn't anything of. And so charitable impact, addressed that
both by building a tool for donors and by, layering that tool with, you know, services, you know,
human help and some programming around it. And just for what it's worth is. Charity nerd might
recognize as a donor advised fund.
And so a donor advised you, you know what that is.
Paden: Yeah. So I, you know, as a CPA and CFP, yeah, yeah. I'm
John: Okay.
Paden: aware. Yeah. Working in the tax well space. Yeah.
I definitely know what a donor-advised fund.
John: Okay. Well, you know, you're American, I'm Canadian. In, in the United States, way more
people know what a donor-advised fund is, quite frankly. in Canada, it's still a. Very new tool,
particularly and particularly amongst everyday sort of average income donors.
It's really not a tool known to those people. It's a tool that's been much more focused on higher
net worth. Uh, we certainly, we work with a lot of high net worth [00:04:00] people at charitable
Impact, but we certainly have, uh, kind of like a bank, the vast majority of our users are our
normal everyday people. And the, the tool, the donor advice fund, actually in my considered
view, applies to everyone.
Anybody who's got a commitment to giving, uh, it just helps them, right? It centralizes your
giving, right? Here's how it works. You put your money in, get a tax seat right away, and then,
you can hold the money there. You can even make investments, you know, from that so that
your charitable capital. Grows over time.
And then when you're ready, you know, and ideally you've applied some, some strategies and
thought to, to who you are and what you wanna achieve with your giving, you can then distribute
it to any other registered charity once you're ready. Right? So, so really acts like a bank account,
but just for your charitable giving.
And so it helps people manage and organize, uh, their giving, you know, track everything, and
ultimately all that benefit comes from. what used to be one decision charitable giving, which
chair, which charit we gonna give to, and how much I gonna give to them [00:05:00] locked into
one transaction becomes two transactions.
How much, how do I want to approach my charitable giving? How much money do I have to give
away? You know, what type of assets am I gonna use to make the donation? And separating
that type of mindset from, okay, now that I've got this charitable capital. How am I gonna use it
to create the most impact? And what I find is, you know, when I do that with the money that I get
paid from work or, you know, if grandma gives me some money or something like that, and I can
take it and be thought, you know, take it transaction one, decide how to use it, spend it
transaction two, uh, I do a better job.
And, uh, what we, we find that that's also true in the charitable
world.
Paden: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, the, I think the biggest, you know, benefit of donor-
advised funds other than, you know, the tax benefits. Right. And I can, you know, talk to the
listeners about that all day. But, um, it, it, it allows you to, okay, you know, people are often, I.
You know, to some degree motivated to give to charity, you know, because it's a, a tax play or
whatnot.
I mean, at least that's, that's a part [00:06:00] of the equation, right. and, you know, do anything
like a donor revised fund, like you said, allows you to get probably a lot more strategic with it. It's
like, okay, I need to get rid of this, uh, you know, maybe I want to give to charity for, for tax
motivations or other things, but allows you to give it into this. Account, like you're talking about,
donor advised fund, get the charitable write off, but you're not necessarily having forced to make
the decisions right away of Yeah. What, what kind of impact, what you, you know, what, what
charities, what kind of person it can go to or what, you know, whatever. Ultimately, you know,
your vision is for that better in the world.
So there you're, you're right, there is, you know, there's definitely some advantages to that as
well.
John: and actually just not to get super nerdy on tax. I agree with you on tax, by the way, but
unless I'm mistaken. I think it's the same in, the US as Canada, but like in Canada, if you give to
a charity, your tax break is X and it's. It's the same. So by giving to a donor advice fund your tax.
Receipt isn't different. It's not higher. It's the same as giving like directly to the hospital or directly
to your church. Right. So, so the tax is the same. And so the [00:07:00] benefit of the donor-
advised fund is that second piece that you articulated so well, which is okay, you know, so I can
donate and plan that and then I can really think about it.
And so what you often see is people give more through a donor-advised fund because, you
know, they, they feel like, okay, if I can. Give more but still plan. Decide later and over time how
I'm going to use it. I'm more comfortable giving away more now. Right. And that's often 'cause
like when you see the hospital, you see your church or you see whatever you're interested in
giving to.
You might know you wanna give them something, but you might not wanna give them all of your
charitable capital. Right. So I'm willing to give away this much. Yeah, at least not upfront. So I'm
willing to give away, you know, a hundred thousand dollars, but I'm only wanting to give that
charity 10,000. And so, you know, with the donor advised fund, more people give a hundred
thousand and they use the other 90 later.
And, uh, that's, that's really, that's really cool and important for the charitable
sector. Right.
Paden: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's really neat too, is like, you know, uh, an individual [00:08:00]
or really anybody that you know, has an account like this, it's like almost you can start a savings
account for your future charitable giving. Right. Or, you know, right. Almost a way to think about
it. Right. Um, and, and. And there are some other tax benefits, you know, obviously donating in
appreciated securities, you know, securities that have already appreciated a bunch in the Uni
United States.
You just donate 'em. Instead of selling them and getting a tax bill, you can donate 'em in there
and, and, and basically avoid all the capital gains on there. So there's, there's a lot of different
plays that can do that. But, but you're right. I think the, the vehicle itself does a really good job of
just greasing the wheels, a little bit of charitable donation, right.
John: Yeah. the way I would interpret greasing the wheels is that it. It gives the donor a greater
feeling of agency. Like they, they still feel like they're a part of the game. They're not just writing
a check and then they're done with it. They're writing a check or, or giving appreciate securities,
as you say, that also works in Canada.
you know, and, uh, and, and then they're kind of going, okay, like, how am I gonna use this?
Right? and so it greases the wheels, I think really in the [00:09:00] context of. Keeping the donor
really engaged, keep them, keeping them part, part, part of the game, uh, and, and giving them
a greater sense of control.
And not control in the legal sense, right? Because when you donate, it's not yours anymore, but
control in the sense of like. Okay. Like, what am I gonna do next? You know, do I really wanna
support this climate change initiative that I've been thinking about? Or man, like I've been
reading too many kids in my community are going to school hungry in the morning.
What, what am I gonna do? What, I mean, it's too bad there's problems in the world, but it's cool
because it's like engagement and people find joy and meaning actually from, from, from being a
part of those initiatives, right?
Paden: Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. I mean, there's, there's,
a whole lot of joy and meaning to be found in, in getting involved in a problem like that, you
know, in, in your own community or, or, or wherever, right. You know, whatever speaks to you,
you know, personally, probably one of the most fulfilling things you can do, right?
John: Well, that's a message we want more people to hear. 'cause like lots of people say that,
but you kind of really have to experience it to understand how it feels. You know, it's a little bit
like exercise. It's like, [00:10:00] oh man, I gotta go for a run. And then, and then, and then you,
you do it a few times and you're like, wait, I actually feel pretty good.
And I. I can feel a little less bad about that hamburger. I'm about
Paden: Yeah.
John: I can do this. You know, I, I really do think charitable giving is like one of those things. On
one hand it feels like this chore and like, gee, I should do it. And there's some guilt involved with
it.
But once you get involved with something that you really care about. It's like, it's cool. It's kinda
like, it's kinda like the difference of having a job and kind of begrudgingly kind of going, oh, I
guess I gotta get paid. And having a job that you really love 'cause you're like, oh man, I'm
happy to get up in the morning and go and get this done.
Paden: Yeah, it's not work, right? It's like, it, it's like energy giving, right? Because you're
excited about it and, and it, it's really not a negative energy thing, you know, working on that.
'cause you're passionate about it and you know, it's Right. Like a net positive. Right.
So, early days in this, you know, obviously you've gotten this off and, and been really
successful.
This, many entrepreneurs talk about learning from their mistakes, right? Can you share, you
know, one of the mistakes in the early days of charitable impact that you thought [00:11:00] that.
This is the way it was gonna go, and it turned out way different you thought and, um, you know,
you had a pivot or, maybe find a new tactic.
John: I mean, one of the things. We, I, I made a mistake with was, and it was a mistake rooted
in, um, one of my, one of my strengths actually. So one of my strengths is I, I know the
charitable sector really well because there's some background we don't really need to get into.
and once I was able to ask the question, you know, for example, what we discussed earlier, like,
where do donors go to get, uh, help with their charitable giving where they can go and be
themselves?
And uh, and I was like, oh, like once I asked the question because of my charitable literacy, uh, I
was able to answer it right away. And within reason, I saw like a vast majority of the vision for
charitable impact. You know, almost right away. And so the mistake, the mistake I made was
like, well, let's go and do it all right now.
Paden: Yeah, that'll work.
John: know, you know what I mean? Yeah. and so, you know, for, for example, like, you know,
we, we came [00:12:00] outta the gates and, I mean, it wasn't anything crazy, but you're
ambitious and you're like, and you see it all and you know the answers and you feel really
confident about what the users need and want.
And, someone like me is talking with them all the time, So, you know, for example, we built a
tool for the individual and then like, oh, now let's immediately go and build it for the corporation
so they can like match their employees and, and do things like that. And, you know, you just
start to thin out, and you know, so it wasn't, I wouldn't call it a. Necessarily, maybe it was, but at
the time we just kinda looked at again, okay, we got, let's focus on one. And what we decided to
do at the time was focus on the individual donor. Uh, and we're actually coming around now to
starting to, build more tools for, uh, communities of people, which include, uh, which include
companies.
Paden: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's obviously a great takeaway from any
entrepreneur really in any, any line of business or, that's building something is that, the
entrepreneur or the person that gets an entrepreneurship is often really good at seeing the big
vision.
I mean, that's literally why they're, they're entrepreneurs. [00:13:00] Um, but tactically you can't
do everything at once. And, and often, you know, like you said, you were saying, oh, I got you
guys, like, spread out a little bit. Like you were probably doing 10 things and like. Decent at all of
'em, but not really, really good at any of 'em.
Right.
And, and you know, we, as entrepreneurs, I think it, I would almost call it arrogance of like, Hey,
I can compete in seven different lanes and be really good at all of 'em, but like, good luck with
that. 'cause you're gonna be competing against somebody that's just in one of those lanes. And
if they're focusing all their time in one of those lanes, well. They're probably gonna beat you,
beat you pretty good. Right? And, and if you really wanna build something that's great. And, and
you know, not just another company, man, focus and clarity is, uh, everything.
John: Yeah. I mean, totally agreed with that. And the, the other thing is that, like as you,
because you can't do it yourself. At least not the type of thing that I'm involved in. You literally
can't do it yourself, right? You need engineers to build code. You got, you know, web-based
platforms. You need people to talk about it or market it.
You need all sorts of different [00:14:00] types of designers. You know, you need to, you know, it
takes a village, right? So the other reality is that you have to be able to translate the vision and
have them have a shared understanding of it so that they can contribute their skillset that you
hired them for in a meaningful way.
And the more that they have to balance, the less that they can achieve also. Right. So it's both a
external problem, the way you are talking about in theory with competitors and other folks. But
it's also an internal culture problem. 'cause you, you, you risk overburdening people who you
know. You, you can't have a hundred, uh, charity experts in a place like Charitable Impact.
Right. So, so, you know, in the same way they, they don't teach me how to code, you know, I
can't teach them everything about charity overnight. Uh, so you really gotta balance also how
you manage and operate. And, and that's, that actually continues to be a challenge, I would say,
um,
Paden: I don't think that one
John: Impact.
Yeah.
Paden: Yeah.
I don't think that one stops because it does. It's true. Like, you know, you've built an
organization, at the beginning it was you probably wearing dang near every hat and then you
start building the organization and then. And then it becomes [00:15:00] less and less about you,
you know, doing operations or fixing problems.
And more and more about, you know, just leadership, you know, leadership internally and
externally, right? Like, you know, leading, leading the group and the vision and the mission, you
know, and, and being like the lead evangelist of that internally and, and externally, right? If
that's, you know, really where your skillset lies. and that's kind of where I, vision, you know, or
say where I'm at now or trying to be is like, I just want to be that. That person, like, you know,
and, get out of every other aspect because this is like my lane. I think I could run the fastest in.
and it, once again, it's just that focus and clarity and getting really clear on your skillset,
um, and what you're at and what you're not.
And knowing, knowing exactly what those things are.
John: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Easier said than done, my friend,
Paden: Yes, absolutely. And that's, you know,
that takes years work,
reading, personality tests, you know, all that. All
John: Yeah, yeah, [00:16:00] yeah. You know, the one solace on that second thing we're talking
about, that translation issue is like, I, I meet very few, uh, entrepreneurs who go, oh yeah, I
nailed that one. You know, so at least it's like, okay, well I suck at it too. And they're like, you've
got a whole bunch of friends who suck at the same thing,
Paden: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. and that's,
John: part of the crowd here.
Paden: yeah, and that's a big part of the show is to be
like, you know, the six successful people and be like, Hey, I say someone like you, right? Lots of
success and puts you on this pedestal and like, hey, this is this amazing guy, right?
And, and, and you are right. But, They set you up to that like you have some magic skills or
some unreachable thing, right? And, and the kind of the point of the show is to bring this more
down to earth and be like, Hey, all these people that are doing all these cool, successful things,
well, like, they're just like you really for the most part, right?
They, you know, of course they take different actions and whatnot, but like they have all the
same stupid hangups you have, they have all the
same problems. You have.
John: so what do you think differentiates them if it's not that they're special? Because I agree.
It's like, not that you're
Paden: [00:17:00] Yeah, I don't think
it's, it's,
John: you'd be like.
Paden: yeah, he's just a regular guy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's, so much less of a
natural talent thing, right? Like yes, talent exists. You were born with natural abilities. Um, but I
think that too often we give that all the credit. Of like, oh, this person's just really good at
speaking, or, or, or whatever.
Right? And, and yeah, they might have natural abilities that lean them in that direction, but the
people that are really good at speaking are the people that just have made 10,000 speeches.
Right. They've just, they've just done it repetitively and deliberately and intentionally with
practice to develop. and I think that is. I mean, that's the really, the thing that matters. Yes, you,
you, you wanna get positioned in a lane that naturally, like plays to your talents, right? Because
you can get bigger returns than, you know, someone that, that, that doesn't have those talents.
But it's really just about getting the reps in, in, in my opinion, the
most of it.
John: Yeah, yeah. I agree with [00:18:00] that. The, the other thing I'd say is that, you what
differentiates these, like people who get put on the pedestal, is that they, they actually do.
Paden: Yeah.
John: know, and, as a result of doing the action, especially when you're kind of at the front of
the Peloton, I used to race road bikes.
you take responsibility for being up there, right? And it's like, well, who else are you gonna
blame for the mistakes? Like, I mean, even if it's not my fault, it's
Paden: Yeah, it's, well, it, it, it's not your fault. It's
definitely your responsibility.
John: A hundred percent. Right? And, and at the end of the day, it doesn't even matter. So,
that's what I think.
And like, whenever I, I mean, I don't just walk around giving advice to people, but what,
especially when I'm asked to, to, to provide mentorship, it's just
Paden: you have good perspective.
John: Well, and, and the thing that differentiates even in the team, like people who like really
perform versus outperform, it's also not like natural talent.
It's not like, oh yeah, thanks to God or whatever you believe in. Like, I, I'm this like, no, it's like
you're like [00:19:00] actively being curious. You're actively asking questions. You're, you're,
you're putting your work out there for me or someone else to review and, and.
Paden: feedback.
John: You know, diss or, or whatever, right? And then, and then you're learning from that.
And man, the progression you see with those type of people is, is crazy. I mean, some people
call that ambition. I'm not always sure it's ambition, you know, it's not the wrong word, but I just
think it's this like, it's like a form of courage and action put together. And, and that's what
entrepreneurs have to have that if they don't have that, they'd never become entrepreneurs.
Paden: Yeah. Yeah.
John: Right. Uh, so I think that's the, that's the main, the main thing. And I, so I love what you're
talking about with, it's like, not really like some special talent.
Paden: I, I think people just use other people's, like natural talents as an excuse for why they
don't have whatever that is. Right. Like
that, that makes they, they feel good about themselves. 'cause they can justify it in a way that.
You know, it's not, it's not their fault. and that's not just other people. I mean, like, that's me,
that's, that's just a natural human thing.
but [00:20:00] the more and more you can take responsibility, um, for those things, well just flat
out the more control you have. you made the comment about like, taking action and Yeah.
That's, that's really the separator. And you know, I, I studied under like a mindset coach the last
year one, you know, one of the top ones in the United States and he talked about like, um, you
know, like the dirty little secret in self-development is that 98% of people just listen or read the
stuff and never do anything.
With it. Um, and they just sit in this like, it's this like positive feedback loop of like, you know, I'm
just listening and I'm soaking all this stuff in, and that's great and you should do that stuff, but
like, it's meaningless if all you ever do, it's just in your head, right? If there's never any
implementation, there's never any change. That's what a lot of people do is they,
they, they listen to things like this to try to get motivated and then it, you hit that first wall and
then you just shut down and stop.
John: That's a, that's a problem. I, I wish I, uh, could hack [00:21:00] more. Not, I mean, maybe
for myself, um, but also, but primarily, primarily at terrible impact. 'cause you know what people
love to talk about,
Paden: Themselves.
John: you know, well, no, like how they like to see themselves as as good. They like
Paden: Mm-hmm.
John: as generous.
Uh, the intention of of being charitable is like. Super high, but the actions associated to being
charitable are generally speaking super low. it's a huge part of why I am interested in this. It's a,
it's effectively a, a, a behavioral economics kind of, you know, play at that level.
Right. But it's, I'm really interested in that human aspect of like, When and why people actually
help. and ultimately why over time so many of us kind of, coast on the engagement piece,
Paden: yeah. And they sit on the sidelines, right?
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I always try to differentiate, you know, internally and externally,
like the difference between like, intentionality and, action.
Paden: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, [00:22:00] I'm right up that alley too stuff. I think about a lot of, like,
you know, as a, you know, I'm in the tax and wealth space and advise a lot of people about
money and, and whatnot, and I'm always looking at that through a lens of human psychology
and, and it's not even really about the information per se.
It's, it's really about the person and their decision making and their. Their history and their fears
and, there's so much more to it where I, you know, I preach to my team all the time where it's
like, it's not really even about this stuff. It's
about what they learned from their mom about money and this is their fear.
And, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's really that, it's really that deep
As advisors being able to just understand that and approach it from a way of like, it's not just like
tell people what to do when they do it. it's very much like you said, not, not necessarily an
education information problem. It's, um, just a human behavior problem. And how can we almost
trick ourselves into, I don't wanna say use the word trick, but like,
John: I mean,
Paden: wheels is the term we used earlier of
like, you know, how do we make that less [00:23:00] friction to get what we want? Right.
John: Yeah. And just, and just get started because I mean, that's the entrepreneurship problem.
Like, because once you're started, you're like, oh, okay, like this, this actually works for me. it's
like exercise too. It's right, right. It's like, oh man, I really didn't like getting off the couch.
But now that I'm off the couch and I'm outside, like I feel all right. And in fact, this is great. yeah,
so if you figure out, uh, how to hack that problem, uh, reach out to your, your, your
Paden: I, we could solve every problem, couldn't we?
John: Yeah.
Paden: hacking human nature. That, that'd be great.
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Paden: So, John, you, often talk about like nurturing, like generosity in other people. what
advice would you give to, you know, the listeners aspiring entrepreneurs, who want to build like
a, purpose driven business, and maybe make some social impacts? What, um, any kind of
general advice you'd give to an entrepreneur like that
John: Well,
you gotta just [00:25:00] start, right? Like, it's actually quite amazing how like. When people
would, if someone asks me like, oh, when did charitable impact start? Like, you know, everyone
likes to look for some date, you know, as like date
Paden: some, magic moment or
John: yeah.
And, but, that's the thing. It's like, huh? Like when did it start? And then there's actually all these
different starting moments, right? Like, you know, um, so, but that's, that's the cool thing about
starting is that like, it's really just you start this, momentum about it. And, well, it's so risky.
Like, because there's all these different moments. You actually can kind of pull the shoot at any
time, right? Because like, actually starting, it's not like you go from zero to a hundred people,
you know, on day one. you hire one
Paden: Into it. Yeah.
John: Right. And then you're like, oh, okay, maybe we should hire another.
Right? And so, so there's actually all these, all these moments. it's just start and then, you know,
when you, when you talk about the purpose driven business, I think what's really important
about that, you know, and purpose driven doesn't necessarily need to mean benevolent, right?
or [00:26:00] it can have a broad, we can have a broad definition of what benevolence means. I.
In that world, it's like really important for that to be authentic to you. Because the motivations of
money and like success in that sort of traditional vein, it's like, it's 20, 20 12 now.
Like that stuff has like, so been around for so long and it's so clear that, you know, generations
and stuff have really gone through that. I, I think, if you're not authentically interested in the
purpose, like just kinda. You know, go over here and, you know, maybe have some success and
then try to find some purpose for yourself to, where, where you can leverage that success into a
different place.
So I think the, what I would say, and this is a bit biased 'cause this is, you know, who I am, the,
the purpose driven nature of what charitable impact is, is like, it's not deeply personal to me, but
it's like, it's like totally me. And like, it might sort of sound cheesy and it's, but it's not like I'm like
some great guy just because, like I work in the charity space and I help people, you know, with
charity.
[00:27:00] Like, if I'm a great guy, I'm a great guy for other reasons, the reason I'm doing this
stuff in the charity space is 'cause it's like what I know, and I have an angle on it that makes me
super excited. I feel very comfortable there. and so I am purpose driven.
So I think you want that to be like super, super authentic. In other words, don't just do purpose
because you think it's like.
Paden: A good economic move or something to make right.
John: Yeah, and I mean, there is all this talk about, gee, like all this emergent purpose driven
stuff. And so is that because it's like a good economic move or is that because it's, you know,
more people going, huh?
Like, I wonder if I can use my work and, and the building of what I'm doing to solve more
problems than just the acquisition of wealth. Right. I. Then, and then that's actually what
generates the positive economics. You know, it's like you're actually solving a real problem and
people get interested in it and then, and then your economics work out.
That's, that's the way I, I see it. I also think that's true. but then, you know, the other part of this
is like, it's really clear and, and I can say this from experience and in our world, 'cause a
[00:28:00] lot of purpose, people want to attach purpose to their lives or the businesses comes
to come to us. When someone's just doing it to like, sort of have the facade of doing it, it's, it's
quite clear
Paden: Yeah, it's obvious,
isn't it?
John: Yeah. And, and I'm not, I'm actually not against that. Like, because at least they're
participating. Right. At least they're trying and, and the hope out of that is that they find
something where it does become more authentic and then they're more likely to sustain it. the
point I'm making that about is that it's usually clear to someone else when, what you're doing
isn't sort of motivated by sort of who you are and what you're trying to achieve.
it's hard to fake actually. Yeah. When that happens, it's also not sustainable.
Paden: Yeah.
John: Right. So, so it's not to say it's good or bad, it's just, it's just doesn't, so you, so where the,
where the purpose-driven stuff is something that you are really engaged with yourself, that
you're passionate about, you know, that's what drives the knowledge development.
That's what drives the ongoing engagement when times get tough and that's ultimately what
drives the, what drives
the success.
Paden: [00:29:00] Yeah. if you're not authentic, like you said, if it's not some passionate thing
that you and your team are authentic about, like. You're not even gonna raise as much money
or, or, or have as much impact as, you know, maybe you wanted to anyway. Um, and like you
said, I think, you know, you'll have these, you know, these cause front cause you know
businesses and you're right, they don't have to be, you know. These benevolent things, they can
be for profit and still very much, you know, support a cause. but if it's not authentic, I mean, your
customer's gonna see that. Like they're, they're gonna feel it, right, like that, like
you said, it's just something really hard to
fake if you're really trying to just, Hey, this makes sense from an economic, you know, stance to
support some charitable thing. Because we think people like that.
John: Yeah. And, and on the charitable front, we, this is the same advice, uh, guidance
generally, I, I give to donors too, right? Like, so, so first of all, there's no judgment of like, trying
different things and getting pulled in through a friend or whatever. Like, that's awesome. Like,
that's how we get started in all these different things that we're, we're doing.
But, when you choose to [00:30:00] focus on something that you love. Right. Uh, so the
guidance says, do that, right? So people are like, well, where should I start giving? It's like, well,
what do you, what do you love? Like what? Tell me about what you read. Tell me about what you
do in your free
Paden: What pulls at.
John: you're like. We that, that's, that's right. And, it might be helping kids who don't have food
security, you know, ultimately for personal reasons. But it could be like, I love getting outdoors, I
love going for hikes, you know? Oh, I love the trees. I got so mad the other day when they cut
down those trees in the park.
It's like, okay, now we're talking about a Cause you can,
Paden: Yeah. Something you can get behind.
John: so same advice really goes to the, the donors who are. You know, out there and, and to
the entrepreneurs, I mean, ultimately, actually being a donor is a bit of an entrepreneurial, you
know, thing.
you, gotta start. You gotta continue. And, the more motivations you bring to that, the more
success you're gonna have
over time.
Paden: yeah. Yeah. That's great stuff. So John, I wanted to ask you, uh, an interesting question
is, um, so charitable impact, right? how do you measure success at Charitable Impact? Is it like
[00:31:00] dollar raised? Is it like, what, what metrics do you use at, at your business that, um,
says, Hey, we're we're growing or we're, we're doing the right things? How do you define
success?
John: Well, we're sh shifting towards because we're maturing more and more. Uh, you know,
the, the ideal measurement in my opinion is activity. people taking actions that are, the
continued ongoing development of, and, um, action taking inside their, charitable journey.
Right. So that doesn't necessarily, so an action includes making a donation Okay. Into your
account. And, and an action also includes like. Then going and being like, oh man, I'm gonna
read some stuff about what's going on with the trees in, in, in my community. And, and, and
learn some things and see, learn about what organizations are out there with programs to, to
help achieve the goals that I'm interested to help achieve.
Right. So those are charitable actions too. And, and just to finish the cycle, like then charitable
action also includes going to your donor advice fund and allocating [00:32:00] some money, to
that charity and making the decisions. Am I gonna do that? Anonymously or am I gonna do it,
you know, share my name with them?
Am I gonna, you know, share this with a friend and try to bring them in and get them involved in
what I care about and things like that. So, so what we care about is the activity because, you
know, we need people, Thinking about and talking about, and as a result, taking charitable
actions more and more frequently.
And that's what we want to see. So that might sound like, oh, it's kind of complicated, but, but it's
be the, the reason the answer is action is because those are the things that develop and sustain
the donor over time, number one and number two. Everyone's got different strengths and and
interests, right?
So some people have a lot of money, but they have little time. Some people have little time, but
they have a lot of money. And so let the people who have a lot of time and a little money, you
know, give of their time,
Paden: And yeah.
John: Some, you know, some people have lots of social network and they like to promote
things.
Some people are more introverted, so let everyone. Participate in actions that they're most
[00:33:00] comfortable doing to get them in and keep them in the game. And that's ultimately
how we have success. And so the challenge of the donor-advised fund is then to create the
tools that enable people to show up who they are, when they can to add some value to their
grieving journey and to create some impact for what they care about.
And have that not necessarily always be
give money.
Paden: yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's, you know, there's a million ways you can make
impact. You know, obviously dollars are, are one way. but you're right. Yeah. It's, time is, you
know, in many ways even more valuable, than money. So, you know, you know, finding that
passion project, make your life a lot, a lot more well-rounded, uh, for sure. Last
question here for you, John.
John: Yeah. Love it.
Paden: You know, going back to 2011 or say 2010 before you started this thing, what is one
piece of advice you would give yourself from today's perspective?
so yeah, if I could go back, I would, I would move more slowly with the goal of moving more
quickly, because the things we do [00:34:00] are done with a better shared understanding. With
a better appreciation for why. 'cause even when you make mistakes, it's easier to understand,
right? Because sometimes someone cuts, once they real quick and there's no review and
there's no discussion, and then they're like, well.
John: Uh, that was a mistake really, you know, but you measure a couple times and then you
kind of come back and go, oh, look at that. We made that mistake. And more people have more
context for understanding possibly why. So yeah, measure twice, cut once.
Paden: So that's, yeah, that's good advice. And yeah, I mean that's, you know, in the different
entrepreneur circles and stuff, I run through that. That's a lot of advice that's given is like, Hey,
you know. Sometimes you definitely have to slow down to speed up, right? Or you gotta, you
gotta break a couple things which hurts and take a couple steps back. Uh, you know, whether
that's like, oh man, this revenue line's not where we need to go, or, you know, you, you have to
take even losses financially to actually be able to move forward. Um, so often, yeah, that,
slowing down to speed up. And, and often if you're, you know, you're running [00:35:00] fast,
you're making those cuts like you're talking about often you're. you could be running around and
doing all this activity and it's, it's not, um, it's not the right activity. Uh, it's not like the activity that
gives you the most leverage, right? It's, it's these little activities that aren't really necessarily
moving the business forward or, or any kind of lynch pin issues whatsoever.
And, we, we often trick ourselves into thinking like, activity is like productivity. Um, and that's,
um, a
John: that's well said. That's well said. Yeah. You know, on that, I mean, just as, because it is
2025 and productivity's like all over, you know, YouTube shorts all the time. Right. I. Uh, and as
a aging, you know, man, I'm now 40, 47. Like, productivity is really, really important, right? But
it's one of these things that.
again, back to measure twice, cut once. Like you, really gotta be thoughtful about how you add
productivity, right? And, and I've made the mistake certainly myself, but I see it inside my
organization all the time where people are trying and the best of
Paden: Yeah.
John: you know, [00:36:00] we're just gonna move faster doing this.
And it's like, oh, but like there's, and then you look back and you're going, oh, no wonder that
didn't work.
Paden: Yeah.
John: Right. No one actually stopped to really think about it or to allow their work to be
challenged and critiqued. Right. I mean, that's the other thing that I think you really see in
entrepreneurs, especially mature entrepreneurs and, and also team members who accelerate, is
that they, they've got this ability almost to like.
Seek out criticism. And when you have the ability to seek out criticism, almost by definition
you're able to take criticism. Right? And like it's such a differentiating factor. People who seek
criticism of their work, their work gets better so much faster than other people's. And, uh, so, you
know, that's, that's required to be an entrepreneur.
And, and that's, I think that's really good. Like, that's something I want my kids to learn, right?
Like, you know. It's okay to feel bad sometimes, but like you really gotta lean into those difficult
conversations and seek 'em out because man, it's like such a, such a hack. It's such a
[00:37:00] fast way to improve.
Paden: mm-hmm. Yeah. and that's why I love entrepreneurship and you know, we talk about it
like it's, it's like the best. Self-development tool out there, or one of the best, right? Where it's
just a, uh, it's a constant feedback load,
right? You put some work out there, the market likes it or they don't, right?
Like, and it's, it's just this like ruthless judge, right? Like,
it, it doesn't care about your feelings whatsoever, John.
John: yeah,
Paden: Like it's, you know what I mean? It work sucks. Work sucks, and that, that just is what it
is. And, if you wanna get any better, like, well, you're not gonna change the market. You've gotta
change yourself and Right.
And that is that feedback loop. And, and the more you lean into that and be willing to chip, you
know, and, and carve all the crap off you and your business that isn't good, right? And, and,
develop and, purify that thing, that's when you have something great. Right? But like When
you're hiding from the feedback because it hurts her feelings.
And we, you know, our egos are too big and, well, that's where you're gonna be stuck.
John: yeah, a hundred percent.
Paden: So, John, man, this has been [00:38:00] awesome conversation. what's the best way
people can follow you, connect with, you, get to know more about charitable impact or, you
know, just anything else you do?
John: Well, we're, uh, charitable impact.com. you can find us online. You can find us on. All the
different social medias, you know, at we are charitable. Um, love it. If people gave us a follow,
uh, you know, we are just in Canada right now. We do just, uh, work outta Canada right now, but
there's some wonderful donor advice funds down in the United States and you know, at the end
of the day, just.
I want people to like, recognize like how much more fun it is to be alive when you contribute
towards things and you see them change over time. And so, uh, charitable giving is one way to
go about doing that. It's one piece of that, pie. And, uh, really wanna encourage people to give it
a try.
You know, if you love it, stick with it. If you don't like it, that's okay. You can go on to try
something else.
Paden: Yeah,
John, man, that's great advice. anything else you wanna leave the listeners before we go?
John: Man, just, hey, thanks for doing what you're doing, and keep up
the good work.
Paden: [00:39:00] man, I appreciate you, John, man, that's been great to get to know you and,
uh, listeners. yeah, man, follow their company. You know, John's a great entrepreneur. He is
doing a lot of cool stuff and, um. Well, we'll catch you next time.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. If you found it valuable, please rate,
review, and share it. That is the best way to help us build this and reach more people as we're
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You can follow us on social media by searching for me Peyton Squires.
Or going to payton squires.com on the website and social media. We're always sharing tips of
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