89: What Every Entrepreneur Should Know About 401(k) Plans – But Doesn’t!

Behind Their Success: Episode 89

[00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome to Behind Their Success Podcast. I'm Paden Squires,

the host, and today we have on Paul Sippil. Paul is a forensic 401k consultant, a CPA, and

founder of Community Dining. Paul's on a mission to bring transparency to retirement planning

and to foster deeper connections in business and community.

Paden: Get ready for some insights that challenge the status quo and empower entrepreneurs

to make better financial decisions. Paul, welcome on Behind Their Success.

Paul: Uh, it's great to be here. I'm very excited.

Paden: Yeah, absolutely, Paul. So, as fellow CPA, like me, uh, I love that. Tell us kind of about

what you know, what you do.

Paul: Well, I describe myself as a, as you mentioned, forensic 401k consultant. Sometimes I say

401k vigilante and crime fighter, and really, I'll back up and explain how this all got started. It

was actually about 20 years ago as a result of a conversation I had with a colleague who. Told

[00:01:00] me how you could look up 401k plan tax forums online.

I, I just, I couldn't believe that stuff was a matter of public record. I, I've always had an

investigative mind, and I just had the inclination to look into a little bit. I didn't know what to do

with the information, but a few years after the conversation, it wasn't immediate. I started looking

more carefully at these forms and I thought, you know, I'm gonna call some of these business

owners.

I'm gonna let them know what I see, these eye-popping service charges, and surely they'll be

grateful and immediately take action. But it wasn't quite, uh, what happened. What they would

keep telling me is, oh no, no, Paul, I'm fine. I'm not paying anything and this still happens to this

day. And oh, by the way, my friend handles that.

So really everything must be fine and. What they were saying was partially true. They're not

paying anything at the employer level because they're not getting a bill, these service charges,

and you just, you wouldn't believe how much money comes out of these accounts going to these

providers. these [00:02:00] charges are paid by the participants and because these business

owners, or CFOs or controllers or whoever's overseeing the plan have never seen a bill, even

when I tell them, I'm looking at their tax form.

I'm clearly not making up the service charges. They still don't totally believe it. And if they ever

have even a remote level of trust of any of their advisors, they think, well, it couldn't be that

much otherwise I would've to question the relationships that I have. So that's kind of a long-

winded answer as to how I became a forensic consultant and crime fighter.

And I'll add one quick thing is that I was working. as a independent contractor with a large

financial services firm, and I was criticizing one of the record keepers that they had a

relationship with as one of the approved providers that we could recommend, and I got in a little

bit of trouble.

I.

Not surprisingly, because they got wind of it, the record keeper that was, uh, and I was talking

about their excessive fee lawsuits they were involved with, [00:03:00] and my compliance

department didn't like that and informed me that I could no longer criticize anyone that they had

a relationship with.

This was not a criticism of my firm. This was just a recognition that I needed to go off on my own

as an independent fiduciary. So I'd be free of the shackles of the industry like so many other

advisors are.

Paden: Yeah,

so, you know, investigative type guy, you know, obviously you started digging into some of these

401k accounts, like what, kept you in that area? of expertise.

Paul: I just had this feeling that I could make a difference in the industry that due to the nature of

the responses that I was getting, I thought and, and not, not just. The fact that people said that

they weren't paying anything, but just that there was such a profound disconnect between truth

and reality that I realized very quickly I could make a whole career out of this and still barely

dent Chicago.

'cause there's just so many businesses in Chicago and [00:04:00] I really never wanted to be

just a run of the mill advisor. I always. Wanted to do something different to really kind of make a

dent in the industry, maybe move the needle in some way. And I mean, we all wanna build a

nice practice, but I never just wanted to do something ordinary.

And I've also, you know, always had an investigative mind and always been one that describes

myself as, uh, pursuer of truth. And it just seemed to fit my values and who I was. And I thought,

wow, it'd be really cool to have a career that's really in line with. What I believe, and you know,

not everybody could say that.

Paden: Yeah. and like you said, some of you know, my, my experience, yeah, RIA myself. it's,

some of the. The fees and stuff that are, that are charged and, excessive fees that you talk

about, that are coming along with, very little service or very little advice, is fairly common

practice.

And, and like you said, it's, not, uncommon to see fees that are just when you actually do the

math and, and do the compounding now, and how ridiculous a lot of that stuff is.

Paul: Oh yeah, [00:05:00] absolutely. And I like to use Milton Friedman as an example. Uh, I

mean, I. Really into economics and finance. And I like to read a lot. He, he talked about, he's a

fairly well-known economist. You, you know, you might be familiar with him. Some, some of your

listeners I'm sure are too. And he talks about the four ways to spend money.

And I thought this was fascinating. Uh, in terms of its application to the retirement industry. You

can spend your own money on yourself, your own money on someone else, someone else's

money on yourself, or someone else's money on someone else. And the fourth quadrant, the.

The latter is where you don't economize and you don't seek the highest value.

And that's exactly the way the 401k plan industry is set up. oftentimes it's an HR director,

controller or CFO that's overseeing the provider relationships. And while they have some money

in the plan and they're subjected to some fees, the vast majority. Of the fees are passed on to

other participants.

So I think it actually creates a moral hazard and if people would just realize that the employer

can actually pay the fees, [00:06:00] I think the whole industry would change overnight because

you're much more naturally to scrutinize costs if you actually to physically write a check.

Paden: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I mean, there's some, some misaligned incentives there, right?

Between, the owners of the business, the relationship maybe with the advisor, and then maybe

all the underlying employees. And yeah, you could, you could definitely see how that, that could

go sideways, um, for sure.

So can you give us an example of like a story, you know, you know, a classic story of like this, in

where, where you uncovered something like this.

Paul: I'll use a law firm as an example and the reason I want to use a law firm. Is because

there's something unique about law firms that doesn't apply to a lot of the other professional

services or, or other firms.

It might be other professional services firms. First is that law firms especially should be paying at

the employer level because the vast majority of the fees are paid. By the owners, the partners,

because they have the biggest balances, those who have the largest [00:07:00] balances in a

401k plan are paying the vast majority of the fees, which are primarily and wrongfully asset

based law firms, like other professional service firms don't.

Smaller ones anyway, don't have a lot of participants, but have a ton of money, a ton of

contributions amongst the employer and the employees, which continues to push up the

account balance. So a lot of them have, you know, several million dollars, four or 5 million or

more in total assets with only 20 or 30 people.

But other firms have maybe a million with 20 or 30 people. It's the same amount of work,

regardless of how much money is in the plan, yet the plans with more money. Get charged far

more for advisory administration, record keeping and custodial fees. But here's something more

interesting is that the fees paid by the participants, which is almost all the fees in most cases,

are not tax deductible.

And even if they were, nobody sees the fees anyway, so you wouldn't be able. You wouldn't

even know to deduct something that you can't see. But fees paid at the [00:08:00] employer

level are deductible like any other business expense. And again, the partners, the owners are

paying the largest share of the, like the vast majority of those fees anyway.

So they might as well pay at the firm level with tax deductible dollars, eliminate the fees for

everyone else. So there's no. Possible claim of liability, for any participant getting charged

successive fees. And it would be more attractive as a recruiting tool where your 401k plan would

be more competitive than just about any other small business in terms of the fees and also the.

American Bar Association has a retirement funds program. It's a 401k plan called the American

Bar Association's Retirement Funds Program. If you set up what's called a self-directed

brokerage account, which by the way has no annual fees, they just waive the annual fee, you

can eliminate. All, almost all of the record keeping administration and custodial fees.

And you can force the financial advisor [00:09:00] to come to an individual agreement with each

separate participant in order to get paid or charge the firm at the firm level. Because the way

these 401k plans work, including law firms, is that. Financial advisors will automatically get paid

a percentage out of everyone's accounts whether or not the participants use the advisor.

And in many cases, over 90% of the participants have no interaction with the advisor

whatsoever. I have no affiliation with this program. I don't make any money off of it, but if small

law firms knew they could do this and use this. A BA retirement funds program, and all of them

were to use the brokerage account with no limit.

Some of them have like a 50% limit. The only restriction is that you have to have $2,500 in one

of the core funds, which is how the program makes its money because that's, those are the

funds that have all the kickbacks built in to pay the record keeper for the administration,

custodial advisory and, and record keeping fees.

But if you use the brokerage account, then you can pick funds that don't have any of those fees,

but [00:10:00] still get all of those services.

Yeah.

Paden: Yeah. And you know, I think, you know, for the listeners that I think the overarching kind

of thing to take away from, from a lot of what Paul's saying there is that it's a, uh, it's a confusing

world in the financial

Paul: I forgot to mention the actual story. So the law firm I dealt with had a broker that was

coming in once a year to buy everybody lunch and the commission payments, which again,

there should never be any commission payments, but that's how the broker was getting paid.

And I could see that on the 5,500 forms I could research all the way back to 2009. Was over

$20,000 a year and there was nearly $20,000 in administration and record keeping fees per

year. So all we did was switch to a fixed dollar fee for the record keeping administration and

custodial fees. I charged a fixed dollar fee that was less than half that was commensurate with

the level of time.

I was spending and the level of services I was providing, and the firm simply decided to pay for it

as a result of the explanation I just gave. It was really, really simple. [00:11:00] Anybody can do

that. I'm no hero. I just was more straightforward and I think rational about how the plan should

have been set up.

Paden: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a confusing world out there, right? With, with all the

different fin, you know, there's, there, the, the financial markets in a lot of ways, or set up or the

financial industry where like, you as the end user have no idea what you're doing.

and you know. Um, the pessimists will say that's all done on purpose. I don't know, but you

know, in reality, that's how it works out, right? it's about educating, it's about, you know, trust. It's

about finding somebody that, that actually does have your best interest at heart.

Paul: Absolutely. Sometimes, uh, I am a little pessimistic and I. Let a plan sponsor know that the

advisor should have at least let you know that you could have had the option of paying the fees

at the employer level. And anytime the employer gets a bill, they're probably gonna wind up

paying less than they would've allowed, uh, [00:12:00] participants to pay, because again, they

don't scrutinize those costs.

And I do think. The advisor will purposely not give them that option because they can't as easily

extract as much money from the, employer as they could from the participants.

Paden: Yeah. I mean, and it's, you know, like Charlie Munger said, follow the incentives. I mean,

you know what I mean? however the incentives are set up, that's where people are gonna go.

that's always been true, will probably always be true. So it's, it's, it is, like you said, it's making

sure you have a relationship where the incentives are aligned.

Right.

Paul: Yep. Yep. Uh, absolutely. I'll add, uh, Ted Bena is somewhat interesting. He's the inventor

of the 401k, and he's pointed out a lot of these same incentive problems that advisors are

getting wrongfully paid. As though they're doing an original piece of work, which is just bizarre

and inefficient, they need to get back to a fee for service model, just like accountants and

attorneys and instead of focused on assets under management fees, and they're not even

managing the account because they're actually participant directed.

They need to simply focus [00:13:00] on helping participants retire. It's the only profession I've

heard of where not they not only get these eye-popping fees, but the client doesn't. Ever, in my

experience, scrutinize what they actually did in return for that fee. Whereas if you're a law firm

and you send a client a large bill, and the client doesn't understand it, it's natural, the client is

going to question it and ask for a breakdown of the service charges.

But the financial advisors aren't held even remotely as accountable because they're viewed as

managers and their fee structure is so opaque that it doesn't give rise to any of those questions

that would be asked of other providers.

Paden: Yeah. Yeah. I mean the, the financial service market, um, is probably the best at tucking

and hiding its fees that, like I said, it's a design in a way where you have no idea who you're

paying how much, and like, is it even reasonable or not? Right?

Paul: Yep, exactly.

Are you looking for a new tax experience, looking for an advisor that actually brings you high

level [00:14:00] ideas and proactively plan so you aren't overpaying your taxes? Or how about

one that even just responds and communicates in a timely fashion? If any of that resonates with

you, you probably just have a tax preparer and not a tax planner.

Speaker: And it is through the tax planning process where all the value is found. And when Tax

Planning's done right, it has a positive return on investment. I'm Payden Squires, I'm a CPA and

owner of Squires Tax Planning. We work alongside entrepreneurs and high income earners,

helping them pay the least amount of income taxes, both legally and ethically.

We have saved our clients hundreds of thousands of dollars through specific strategies, and we

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From there, you can also book a free tax discovery call with our team to see [00:15:00] what it

would look like to have us working for you.

Paden: So, Paul, kind of turning the conversation to you a little bit, kind of, kind of give us a little

bit more of your background and kind of your journey.

You know, you said you were at, you were at a firm before kind of, uh, butted head, or I'll say

butted heads, but realize, you know, maybe, uh, maybe being an employee or, or whatnot wasn't

for you. you know, dig into your journey a little bit

Paul: Yeah, no, of course. Um, I had no idea what I wanted to do outta school. I really didn't. I

majored in accountancy because, I mean, you know, you have a broad business background. I,

I was, I went to University of Illinois and I felt like, uh, if I went into accountancy, I would have, a

good career because that would give me a, a really good foundation to figure out what I wanna

do.

I mean, that's, that gives you such a broad range of skills. And now I describe myself again, no

offense to you or anyone as a CPA, as a recovering CPA,

Paden: I talk about other CPAs a lot.

Paul: but what really bothered me is that [00:16:00] when I was 22, I had no idea what I wanted

to do. And I, I asked myself like, why would someone. At that age, still have no idea what you

want to do.

I mean, I guess a lot of people do, but I think it goes all the way back to public education. I've

never been a fan of public schooling. I've never been a fan of the way in which we learn and

how we're really restricted as to what we're even allowed to study. I mean, I grew up in the dark

ages before the internet, so I guess we didn't really know a whole lot anyway.

Uh, but I just started thinking like. What if I would've had more academic and intellectual and

educational freedom growing up and I would've had more time to explore my interest, uh, you

know, maybe I never would've been, uh, in that position in the first place. So when I said I'm a

pursuer of truth, uh, I've always felt like the way in which so many of us are educated really

limits the scope of our knowledge and limits.

The range of questions, uh, restricts the Overton window, uh, in terms of what we're even

allowed to think about. [00:17:00] So. When I started in my first job in public accounting, I knew,

and I'm not even that intuitive, but I very, the very first day on my very first job, I knew I hated it. I

knew it was the complete wrong fit for me.

I could just feel it. In the very first assignment, I thought, what on earth was I doing? I spent

years preparing for this, thinking this was a good idea, and yet in two seconds, uh, I knew it was

wrong. I dunno if you ever felt. Like

Oh yeah, definitely.

Paden: Um, you know, I, I felt that pretty much in every job I had. Uh, definitely. Um, you know,

from the outside you might not have seen that or whatever. Like anybody was said, I was a

great, like I performed, but no, I hated it.

and you're right. You know, Paul, you talk about like, you know, the education system and, and

whatnot, and I generally agree with, you know, everything you say there. you know, I'm a huge

proponent of self-education. Um, I think that's, you know, unbelievably more valuable than any

like, formal education that you [00:18:00] could, you could really ever get because you're

actually diving in and pursuing into things that interest you and you're actually developing, you

know, something.

To, you know, a further degree, public education and even up through, and it's not just public,

private, you know, really like the standard type education, which is what I call it, even up through

the college level, like, I don't know. You can learn a lot of that stuff now just for free on the

internet and a

Paul: That's right.

Paden: like it, it used to be super valuable because you would have these like universities,

right? That were these keepers of truth and knowledge and whatever, and like everybody from

around the world had to go there to acquire the knowledge.

Paul: Yeah.

Paden: They don't have anything that isn't just like basically free on the internet.

Paul: Yeah, there's so much that we can learn. I mean, I coined the term forensic 401k

consultant. There's no certification for a 401k consultant, forensic consultant. I just had to do a

lot of research and talk to a lot of people and gain experience in my industry and I was asked

once, by a doctor that I was [00:19:00] going to just ask me what I do and.

I explained, and he is like, well, what certifications do you have? And I thought that was a very

interesting question. This is nothing against someone being a doctor and asking for, credentials

because, you know, how else do we assess someone's expertise but to look at, uh, credentials?

And I, it makes me think it was a debate I was listing.

It was like a. You know, I'm not personally getting political here, but it was a political debate, uh,

between two gentlemen and, and one of them, you know, asked him, kind of questioned his

knowledge he hadn't formally studied the issue. And I think it bothered a lot of people because I

think anyone can learn anything.

In any way if they really dedicate their time and their energy to it, you don't necessarily have to

be formally educated to learn. And sometimes formal education, as I mentioned earlier, can be

very limiting. So the only reason I know what I know is just because I was immersed in the

subject and I was genuinely interested.

No certification would've ever given me this knowledge.

yeah. Yeah.

Paden: as a guy that has a bunch of certifications, I.[00:20:00]

Paul: Yeah, and I've, yeah, I have.

Paden: and like they're great and all. I had this conversation, with somebody here as well where

it's like, you know, they're, they're pursuing a certification. They're wondering like, is this thing

worth it or not? And, and my conversation got down to where it's like, Hey, do I think, you know,

the studying for this exam and the passing of this exam is really gonna teach you anything for

your, like daily role?

No, not really. Um, but the reality of the situation is that, the perception of those credentials,

right, um, certainly does have a real economic value, from the client standpoint. so we got really

kind of deep in that philosophical argument there. Um, but you know, I'm right there with you

where it's just like, yeah, I don't care about degrees or certifications or whatever.

It's like, what do you know? What do you know? What do you not know? Um, you know,

certifications can be handy for, like you said, filtering maybe for, experts to, a degree, but, and I

know a lot of people with certifications that I wouldn't work with,[00:21:00]

Paul: Yep. and yet I'm still proud to put the letters CPA after my, uh,

well, yeah, you earned that.

my name. It's, it wasn't easy. And there was one client I had that I asked him why he decided to

work with me. I thought he thought I was real smart or something, or he was really impressed of

me. He is like, you know, Paul, the other people I interviewed, they didn't have their CPA and.

Paden: I get that a

Paul: that just made me smile because I thought, oh my God, for the first time, I feel like there at

least there was one reason to justify me getting the CPAI. Otherwise, I'm like, why did I do this?

And at least like for the

Yeah.

I felt like it wasn't total waste.

Paden: Yeah. For you, listeners don't know about the CPA exam. It's Yeah, like widely

considered one of the hardest certifications to do, and, they're actually trying to bring down all

the standards because no one even wants to do it.

Paul: Uh,

Paden: and they're not even getting enough

Paul: Oh yeah, that's a whole other conversation about standards in, uh, in, in all of academics

Paden: [00:22:00] Yeah. Oh yeah. We're, you know, I think GPA rates have just skyrocketed

since the seventies. Like GPAs used to be like 3.0 and now they're like 3.9 and it's like, so I

guess everybody just got really smart in the last,

Paul: Yeah, some somehow, right? Um, you know, not, not like the standards, uh, haven't

changed

haven't dropped at.

oh my God. And, and, yeah. What's there? There's a movie. Have you ever seen that movie,

Idiocracy, by chance?

Paden: Uh, who is that? Uh, who is that?

Paul: Mike, judge, uh, same writer's office space.

Paden: Okay.

Paul: I asked you because it, it's about. The human population getting dumber and dumber

Oh, okay.

people keep breeding and, and each successive generation, the intelligence decreases just a

little bit more. And just in our conversation it kind of reminded me about that movie it, which was

made about 21 years ago.

So it was very prescient because if you watch it now. And you look at what's going on in the

world just with the dumbing down of standards, and they talk about our healthcare system

where [00:23:00] these doctors literally are just pressing a button. They don't even think

anymore. They just

Yeah.

hit a button.

Paden: I agree. And like, as a general philosophy, like just in life, like, and I, you know, this

rubbed some people the wrong way, but like, I, I believe it's never been easier than ever to be

like, successful, um, in your chosen area because, like you said, the bar is set solo that

Paul: Yeah.

Paden: like, if you just care a little bit, you're gonna run circles around the average person.

Because really, like I said, especially man, I don't, and maybe this is just me getting old and I

become the old crochety guy or whatever, but like, I feel like since 2020, the standards, the

customer service standards, just someone talking to you, looking at you in the eyes, just, the

most basic human interactions have just gone away.

And like people don't have those skills and it's wild.

Paul: I, I, I couldn't argue with any of that, and I'm wondering, does this mean I'm getting old

too, because I [00:24:00] always I always made fun of, adults or just kind of laughed at them

when they would talk about, well, you kids today don't work as hard as we as we do. That's why

I love the grumpy old man skit years ago on Saturday Night Live with Dana Carvey. He really

captured that, those sentiments well, I'm like, well, I'm not gonna be like that and.

Yeah.

Paden: Yeah. As we, and that's, that's the thing too. It's like at the same time, you know, I say

that and then I look at, you know, uh, even like say my parish generation, and then I watch them

complain about the world. And it's like every generation ever is always, you know, the world's

going to hell and, you know, all these things.

It's, that's always been the thing since, you know, humanity existed.

Paul: absolutely. Although I think we have a little more of a legitimate gripe because the, the

internet is

Paden: standards that have seemed to have devolved right.

Paul: I think the difference between us and, uh, younger generations is greater because all the

older generations, like they, what they all had in common is they still all never had the internet.

Paden: yeah, I mean, you, you grew up in, you know, uh, you know, pre-internet [00:25:00] is.

Like literally a different planet than than today's. And, and gosh, what the world looks like in 10

years from now is gonna be a totally different planet, you know, than it is today with AI and

blockchain. And like, we don't even know what's gonna happen.

Um, so like, you know, that that change is, is gonna get even more and more rabid, more and

more crazy. Um, that's why I think it's super important for us to be, you know, adaptable

entrepreneurs, to like you. You know, you, you seem like a guy that's, uh. Very into, you know,

self-development, continuous marketing is what I would say, and I think that is massively

important in today's ever fast.

You know, like the world keeps compounding at an ever faster rate and change at an ever faster

rate.

Paul: Yep. And, uh, the jo, the number of jobs, uh, I've heard a statistic along the lines of like,

50% of jobs, uh, that are currently in existence are gonna be gone in 10 years. Or maybe it's

more than that. I, I don't, I don't even know, but that's, uh, pretty daunting.

Paden: Yeah, I mean, and, and the [00:26:00] stuff that, you know, my tiny little firm and starting

to implement AI across our CRMs and, and, and everything, and the, the far reaching, To me, it's

mind boggling. All the data that, you know, a business can collect and, and, and the endless

things they can do with it now is, is just mind boggling.

It's exciting for me as an entrepreneur. Uh, but then also trying to think of like, okay, what are the

implications of all this? Um, that's where your, my brain kind of breaks and we don't, we don't

know this is gonna play out.

Paul: Oh yeah, it's, it's overwhelming. I started using chat, GPT and other forms of ai, and the

ability to synthesize massive amounts of data within seconds is, uh,

Paden: it's just, just flat outs. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna make an omission right here, right now,

Paul, um, I didn't write your intro to, to this, podcast. Um, perplexity AI did and to be to, you

know, fully honest with the, the listeners here. I use it all the time for research on cast. Right.

And it's really great.

'cause I, when guests are coming on the show, like Paul, it's like I, I get collect [00:27:00] some

information. You know, a lot of these people are semi-public people, so you can ask AI about

'em, um, and get a lot of great information and write an intro. And, and also I can say, hey

perplexity, gimme six.

Great engaging questions out. Ask Paul, um, for my specific podcast, 'cause it also knows my

podcast. Um, and it, it makes some pretty good stuff.

Paul: it's, it's amazing. I use perplexity myself. Uh, it's fantastic.

Paden: Yeah. So Paul, you know, looking back at, your journey, what do you think is your best

skill that, that has helped you develop, has helped you, you know, had the level of success that

you've had so far?

Paul: I would say I, I just don't stop asking questions. Uh, so I would say it's, uh, an unusual

level of curiosity. In fact, that's the only reason I do what I do, is due to curiosity and The

paradox is that, uh, I think

Paden: gets you in trouble sometimes, doesn't it?

Paul: yeah, it, it does curiosity killed the cat. That's one expression. but the paradox is that,

[00:28:00] education often stamps out curiosity.

That's the

Paden: Yeah, you're right. you're absolutely right. The curiosity and that my biggest issue with

education is it scares everybody away from failing at anything. Like, you know, you are trained

over and over and over again. The most important thing is not to make a mistake, um, not to be

successful, not to learn something.

It's not to mess something up. and then, you know, people take that throughout their careers,

their lives or whatever, and. They just go through their life's not trying to mess stuff up, not

realizing that literally the only way to learn something is to mess something up, is to start doing

action and, and creating problems to fix.

Paul: Yeah, it reminds me of a quote, the, uh, the ultimate result of shielding people from the

effects of folly as a world filled with fools.

Paden: who was that? Who dropped was that? Milton Freeman.

Paul: Uh, I don't think it was Milton Friedman. It might have been, you know, I don't even.

Paden: something like that, maybe.

Paul: I'll have to Google it. I, I remember the, the quote

Paden: Yeah, no, that's a great one to, you know, keep in, uh, your heart [00:29:00] right there.

curiosity seems like your superpower. Like I said, I bet that's, um, rubbed a few people the

wrong way along, along the ways. Right? And, and that's part of being curious and, and creating

some action in the world is, yeah, you're gonna bump into some things and upset the apple cart

a little bit.

And, um, yeah, just know that's part of doing anything that's, that has any effect in the world.

You're gonna upset people. but when you were younger, maybe, you were a little more I don't

wanna say brash, but like, how has that style changed throughout your career?

from like a leadership standpoint or have you evolved in that area at all?

Paul: Hmm. Yeah, that's, uh, that's a very good question. I would say I'm just as much, so if you

might say brash as I was, um, I. Back then, in fact, I, I've become maybe even more outspoken

or more blunt, which is, uh, and maybe I'm just not old enough yet, uh, to, uh. Uh, perhaps have

gotten subdued, but, uh, I mean, that's why I left my old firm [00:30:00] because I had a, like a

muzzle put on me.

I felt like when I was told I couldn't say certain things or criticize certain people, and I, every day,

I'm continually grateful for being off on my own because I, the longer you stay. A situation where

you're not able to fully express yourself. Uh, it just, the more it weighs on you and the more it

limits you and the more it affects you.

So I never forgot how refreshing it is and, uh, freeing it is to be off on your own, uh, to not be

restricted in any way.

Paden: Yeah, and I think that, you know, the way I view that is it, it just kind of allows you to live

in full integrity with yourself, right? With, with what you, you find important, right? Like, you know,

you and I, I'm sure what you're saying here rings super true to all the, all the listeners here as

entrepreneurs, you know, in any jobs.

Most of these listeners I've ever had is like, they felt like they had a muzzle on 'em, right?

Because they're these large, autonomous driving, you know, [00:31:00] entrepreneurs. but

you're right. When you have that, that feeling, if you have a muzzle on you, you don't feel good

inside because you feel like you're not living integrity, you know, you're not doing what you say

and saying what you do because you, you, in, for some reason or another, someone tells you,

you gotta kind of ignore a part of the truth that you're seeing.

Paul: Yep. Yep. Exactly. And um, I'm glad I left when I was young enough where I could do it.

Paden: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, you know, that's where a lot of people get stuck too, right?

Is, is you get into, say, you know, you started your financial career, let's say you start having

success, make a little money. And then it, you know, you get maybe those golden handcuff type

environment, right? You start a family or whatnot to where it becomes even harder to break free

from situations like that, or certainly a lot more scary, right?

To, to break free of that because you got a lot more at risk, right? And you're hoping, uh, hoping

you know, your, kids still get to eat, uh, even though quite your job.

Paul: Yeah. Um, and that's why I think when you're younger and you know, a kid, a teenager, I

mean, [00:32:00] that's the time for exploration and learning. Uh, so you're not in a situation

where you're much older and you've been stuck for many years and don't know how to get out

of it.

Paden: Yeah, I think, uh, I think it's Jordan Peterson that that talks about, um. That time period,

you know, from like 20 to 30. And that, that's the time period everybody starts getting

conservative, right? Like you've, you've kind of explored through your whole life. You've, you've

got through college and you're getting outta college and the whole world's like go, go

conservative, right?

Go get a job. You know, get your 401k, do all that stuff. And, and in reality, you can make a very

logical argument is that's the time to put it all in line, right? Like, that's the time you go hurt that

business. Do you know, do whatever. 'cause you're young, you don't have a family, you don't

have anything to lose.

Like you can just declare bankruptcy and start over. Like, you know what I mean? You have all

these things that like. you can make all kinds of logical arguments that the society is telling

everybody to do the exact wrong thing at that age. Right? Because you even think, like, from

like financial [00:33:00] investing standpoint, like what do, what do we tell everybody to do in

their twenties and thirties?

Be aggressive, right? Like you have all this time. You need to be aggressive, you need to take

chances as you're gonna, you know, it's gonna pay off the most in the long run. But with

everybody's career in education, we, we tell 'em the exact opposite advice.

Paul: Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's an interesting parallel because if it stands to reason that you

should be aggressive with your investment, shouldn't you also be aggressive with your

Your biggest investment right?

You, yeah. Don't be conservative with you If you're gonna, uh, have a long time rise in investing

wise, uh, why shouldn't we apply that in other ways?

That's, thank you. That's a really good insight. I should, uh,

Paden: You can, you can take that one.

Paul: for myself. Yeah. I'll, I'll

Paden: yeah. And you're right, and, and you know, obviously I'm a guy super in a self-

development and whatnot, it's true. And it's so cliche and corny and you hear it all the time. It's

like, oh, your best investment is yourself. Well, it absolutely is.

Because like it's the one asset, you're gonna carry it with you for the rest of your life. by you.

Say for an example, let's say you have [00:34:00] no skills whatsoever. You can pay a couple

hundred bucks and go become like a full phlebotomist over the weekend and, and maybe get

your hourly wages from 10 hours to $15 an hour.

That's a really great investment, right? You just took your, you just 50% increased your wages

by investing, you know, a couple hundred bucks. And here's the thing, that's skill compounds

forever, right? And, and I think people don't realize that, that, you know, skills and things they

stack, they don't just add up.

So it's like you could be a tax preparer or speak Spanish, you know, each one of those skills has

some market value, right? But what about a Spanish speaking tax preparer? Like that is, you

know, even more rare and even more valuable. Um, and, I wish people would really realize if

they could start stacking skills in their own lives, like how quickly that can add up, and how much

more valuable they can make than in the

Paul: And you don't need formal schooling to do it. Although I will say in defensive school, the

one class, the very first class I ever took in high school that's [00:35:00] still paying off today was

keyboarding, and

Paden: Soon. I, I don't know if you'll need it anymore, someday we'll just be, you know, just

talking at it. We can basically do that now, but, um, yes, it, that's, that's a crucial one keyboard,

Paul: Yep. Yeah,

that might be, that might be the one high school class I still

Paden: use

Paul: today is keyboard.

Paden: Maybe some geography or something when I, when I go do trivia or something.

Those are useful for, for free bar tabs

Paul: yeah. Yeah, it doesn't hurt. Absolutely.

Paden: Well, Paul, you know, this has been a great conversation, man. I appreciate you. what's

the best way people connect with you? Learn more about, you know, kind of your strategies and

your, process around, the 401k or just, you know, really, really anything else you have out

Paul: just basically my website, which is paul s sippel.com, S-I-P-P-I-L. There's a quite a bit of

information on 401k plans there.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Paul, any parting piece of advice for the listeners before you go?

Just never [00:36:00] be afraid to ask questions. There'll be consequences sometimes, but it

never hurts to ask. And even if it might not seem like a good question, I think there's greater

consequences over the long term to not asking.

Paden: Yeah. that's great, great advice. it's a topic that comes up on this show. A lot of be just

curious, you know, a lot of the people on this show, That is a skill they say, has led to their

success. So it's a very common trait on the show of being curious, ask the right questions, I

think it was at Tony Robbins, the quality of your questions is, is equal to like the quality of your

life.

that's the best way to communicate with people.

Paul: But Paul.

Paden: Appreciate you man.

Larry: listeners, we'll catch you next time.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. If you found it valuable, please rate,

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You can follow us on social media by searching for me Peyton Squires.

Or going to [00:37:00] padensquires.com on the website and social media. We're always

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Thanks guys.