81: The Science of Selling – Psychology Hacks That Close Deals
Behind Their Success: Episode 81
Jake: [00:00:00] There's three things that will make a successful business in business development. None of them have anything to do with CRMs. It doesn't have anything to do with networking. Three things.
Paden: Hello everybody. Welcome to Behind Their Success Podcast. I'm Paden Squires, the host, and today we have on Jake Stahl. Jake is not your average consultant. He's a former top tier sales trainer, turns psychological strategist, the inventor of neuro strategy, and the visionary founder of CEO of Orchestrate, a first of its kind intelligence platform that rewires how companies train, sell, and scale. Jake, welcome on Behind Their Success. I'm super excited for this. I was on Jake's podcast a little while back and it was so good. Uh, we wanted to do this again.
Jake: Thanks for having me, Paden. I was really excited. It's quite an honor.
Paden: Yeah, absolutely. Jake. So give us a high level, like who is Jake? Tell us [00:01:00]
about you.
Jake: Well, I'm a, uh, I call myself a neuro strategist at this point, but the background is, I was a
sales trainer for, or had been for 30 years. Uh, I've done it across six countries, 47 states, and it,
it's been a great ride, I think the whole reason. I'm walking down this path right now is I got very
frustrated with the way we were viewed as salespeople. You know, there was a recent study
done that said 80% of people would prefer to purchase something without a salesperson
involved, and that was just last year that was done. but I don't think as salespeople, what I found
is we all have a lot of things in common as buyers, and we all have a lot of things in common as
sellers. Those things in common just don't meet the sellers. Wanna push, push, push. The
buyers want to be understood. Very few people are hitting that middle ground. So my degree is
in [00:02:00] psychology. I have a Master Master's certification and coaching certification in
neuro-linguistic programming, and I've been studying social psychology for so long.
Somebody owes me an honorary degree, so if the university just wants to step up and hand it
over, I'll gladly walk this year at any
Paden: You, you can have, uh, Payton's honorary doctorate. So I just bestowed it
Jake: Thank you. Awesome.
Paden: the first one I've ever handed out.
Jake: But yeah, so Payden, I, I started to create a process called Neuro Strategy, which is the
combination of behavioral psychology, social psychology, and neurolinguistic programming in
creating your business messaging. So your offering, your value prop, any type of pitch you do,
uh, and also in your messaging, what do you put on your bio?
What do you put on a landing page? And orchestrate does what I do live, which is carefully craft
every word, even the sentence structure, [00:03:00] to have the maximum impact possible.
Paden: Yeah. it is amazing, like how you can ab test and add and like the tiniest word change
and how big of a difference that can make, right?
Like it's crazy that people think, oh, well you only changed one worder in that ad. And by
changing that one word, it's like it gets 10 times the results.
Jake: does, and I think Payden, that's where a lot of people, when they're doing their business
development, tend to make the mistake. And that we tend to think if we put out a mediocre
message or a selling message out to 10,000 people, that that's much better than putting
together a highly crafted, well thought out message to a more focused group of people.
And I'll be frank with you, it's a mistake I made too. But as soon as I started to change the way
my message was created and I put it out [00:04:00] to a smaller, more laser focused group, it
was night and day.
Paden: Yeah.
Yeah. And, and, and it's, um, well, and, and just in general business, you know, we're talking,
we're talking, you know, kind of marketing here to, to some degree, right? Like, but just in
general business, right? Like. Niching, right? Um, niching allows you to gain efficiencies all over
the place, and it allows you to become super good at solving one problem for one type of avatar,
right?
And you can do it really fast and efficient and, and, um, you become known as the guy that
solves that one tiny little problem, right? And that can become very, very valuable if the market's
big enough, right?
Jake: Well, and it's amazing. It may not even be the size of the market so much as how many
people just.
Paden: Right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And it may be way bigger than you think. And like, like you said, the tools we have
now today to be able to, like any prop specific problem you can solve, well, you can really
[00:05:00] like target and reach everybody that has that problem, you know, unlike, you know,
years ago, right? Where you're just dealing in a local market or, whatever, right?
Like the world's kind of your market, depending on what you're trying to solve.
Jake: yeah. And I. So that's kind of where I've hung my hat since then. I use neuro strategy to
help customers really focus their message and the way they say it to the right people instead of
this generic, Hey Payton, you know, I'm Jake. Here's nine things I can do for you, and then send
the message out to 10,000 people and just change the name 10,000 times.
Paden: yeah. 'cause you're not attracting the right, you're probably not even attracting the right
kind of people there anyway. Or you, you definitely have no control over, the type of customer
you're, you're attracting either.
Jake: Yeah.
Paden: So you know, long, long time study social, social science, while I'm nowhere near
studied in that, I love that kind of stuff.
The brain, you know, how the brain works, how, you know, humans make decisions and how
we're all just big dumb animals and we think we're, you know, [00:06:00] these intelligent, full of,
logical beings. When, which, which mostly were mostly habits, right?
Jake: Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt.
Paden: Speak to that to some degree, right? Like of, we think we're these big rational beings,
but often, you know, we're subject to biology just like, you know, everything else on this planet.
Um, can you speak to that in any way or, you know, this is for my own interest more than
anything.
Jake: Well, and keep in mind, this is my opinion, there is no
Paden: Oh.
Jake: back this up at all. but I think as humans we have the. The desire to communicate first
and think second and you know, such as the need for an apology and for sending a follow-up
text that goes, oh, I didn't really mean that. And it's natural to all of us.
You know, I get asked all the time, you do communication for a living. You teach us stuff for a
living. You craft these amazing messages for a living. You must be a great communicator.
[00:07:00] Not really.
Paden: Yeah,
Jake: Honestly, not really. Yeah. And, and the reality is I think I may just be more aware when I
screw up than most people, that that's about all it is. But I think as humans, we tend to speak
first. Think later.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: And we're more interested in researching a cat video that made us laugh six months ago
than we are with researching somebody right before we talk to them on the phone. And. It's
immediate gratification, right? The cat video's funny. We, we wanna make our brain feel better,
get a dopamine dump. We wanna do all that. And the researching, our customer doesn't have
that kind of immediate joy feedback. You know, there's no endorphin rush from looking a payden
and, and trying to come up with great questions to talk to him about.
But the result of doing that with payden. And the success I can have is where [00:08:00] that
endorphin rush lives. So I think it's a really something between immediate and delayed
gratification.
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: Uh, I read a psychologist, uh, he had a great paper on. Every decision we make is either
to gain, pleasure or avoid pain.
And they may sound like the same thing, but they're really not.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: So, you know, the pleasure factor is. Huge. And how many purchases do we make every
day that it's about pleasure.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
And the world's designing to speed up that like pleasure. You know, obviously, you know, the
tools are designed to hit us just constantly, right?
Jake: Yeah, and, and you know, I think that when you look at the value process, it's four simple
things. And I'm not the originator of this. Not at all. This is a hor mozy thing, and I think he was
brilliant with it, which is you won a dream outcome. You want the perception of being able to get
that dream outcome.
You want very little time delay and you want no effort and [00:09:00] sacrifice. So if I can put all
those into a value statement,
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: I can, I can create a great, to your point, a great offer. So as humans, we tend to think, we
think with a higher brain, but I think it's more reptilian.
Paden: yeah. Oh yeah. I, I agree. And like it's, it's amazing. As you know, I've, you know, for
years have tried to pull back the layers of myself Right. And understand myself. And I think that's
really. By understanding yourself is how you really start to understand other people, and kind of
how they work. yeah, there's just, so many layers there and things we work through and it, it,
you, as you do more work on yourself, you'll really even start spotting patterns in other people,
right?
Where it's like I start to become even more aware of that. I'm like, oh, okay, I see, I see what's
happening here. And it's, and it it, you know, I, I studied under one of the top mindset coaches
last year, kind of in the country. Um, and he, um, his big thing is you go to Google right now and
Google how, what percentage of your actions are [00:10:00] conscious and it's 5%, 95% of what
you do.
You don't even know you're doing it. It's just a pattern running in your head and you think you
have control over it.
Jake: Are you familiar with the, uh, the psychologist, BF Skinner?
Paden: Uh, I know the name. Yeah. I mean, you know, I took a couple psychology classes in
college, but yeah.
Jake: BF Skinner had this theory and he rode with it for quite some time. He later retracted
away from it a little bit, but his theory was free will is an illusion.
Paden: Yeah,
Jake: We are just one big ball of condition motions that we go through, and all of those motions
are based on things that got positive responses when I made that decision before.
Paden: Yeah, it's just a train response.
Jake: Yeah, and, and Paden, in my opinion, that's where business owners and salespeople go
wrong, is that they go in, they get a condition response and they think, oh my God. That's how
they really feel. [00:11:00] And it's not, it's like the, hi, how are you of communication? I say, hi,
how are you? The other person says, good thanks.
How are you? None of that was
Paden: None of that means anything. So those are just words, like, just, yeah. No one, no one
even thought about what they were saying.
Jake: Right. So if you can break that conditioning, uh, I think that's really the ticket to going
through it. My opinion, Payton, is there's three things that will make a successful business in
business development. None of them have anything to do with CRMs. It doesn't have anything
to do with networking.
Three things, understanding perception, perception's, reality, understanding, conditioning,
because conditioning is where most of our responses come from. And then understanding
coding, the way the human brain is coded. And an example of that is, you know, the
reciprocation thing. I do something for you, makes you wanna do something for me.
We're all coded a certain way. [00:12:00] If a business owner can understand perception,
conditioning and coding, your business development will skyrocket in every possible way. But if
you stick with a whole, Hey, as long as I know networking and A CRM, I'm gonna get
somewhere you're not going to, I.
Paden: Yeah, and it's, I think it's understanding people and you know, obviously this is huge in
my industry 'cause I'm really in a lot of professional services. There's a lot of like one-on-one
type consulting. Right. And it's. And I, you know, I talk to people about this all the time where it's
like, you know, we're dealing with money issues, right?
Taxes and finances and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, it's never like a lack of information.
Like, you know, it's not like people understand how to get money. It's like, okay, you, or, or, or
build wealth, right? It's, I mean, to a degree, right? It's like spend lesson you make and save
some right?
Jake: Right. Yeah, you're right.
Paden: we can get infinitely complex underneath that, right?
Like, and we do, and we help people get all kinds of crazy stuff underneath that. But like, if
number one's not there, if there's not [00:13:00] like a buffer between how much you make and
how much you spend, there's really not much we can do, right?
Jake: Yep.
Paden: it's trying to help people understand that and, that they're running a pattern.
from, you know, their, their money pattern from whatever their parents told 'em or whatever they
learned from when they were, three to, till they left the house or whatever. Right. Like, um,
you're so programmed that I, you know, I, it's very controversial to say that people don't have
free will.
Right. Or, you know, it's Hot topic for a lot of people, but like you know, I wouldn't quite go that
far, but I think you make a lot less decisions than you think you do.
Jake: I would agree and listen, we could, we could spend days in a podcast talking about the
free will thing, but I would agree with the person that you went to as that mentor, that coach is.
We have, I. Control over responses than we think we do.
Paden: and you go to like, uh, you know, you know, Viktor [00:14:00] Frankl, the, you know,
search media and like, to get control of your life is trying to get control of that tiny little gap right?
Between stimulus and response. And that's like, almost like the only control you have in your
life.
Like the only thing you can control, right, is your response to stimuli, and trying to get control of
that, right.
Jake: Which is difficult, to say the least.
Paden: Yeah. Right. Because we are, you know, we got that lizard brain to some degree, right.
That is just respond, respond, respond.
Jake: and part of that messaging to me, what I found in my experience is we don't understand
how much control we have over someone. triggering their automatic responses. You know, walk
up to somebody and put out your hand to shake their hand and tell me how many people don't
shake your hand. It's a small amount.
Most people see a hand reach out and it's like, oh, you know, I'll reach out and shake it. You
know, you say, I love you to a relative or to a child, or is who's to a significant other. It's rare that
[00:15:00] the person doesn't come back and go,
Paden: yeah.
Jake: oh yeah, I love you too. So our ability to control other people. And what they do is
staggering, and I don't think we realize it.
And here's a great experiment for your listeners. If you wanna see how well you can control
someone, sit in a restaurant, look at another table until you catch a person's eye, and as soon
as you do yawn, I guarantee you they will yawn. So your ability to control someone even from a
distance is amazing.
Paden: Yeah, I was, you know, the analogy I've used and that to kind of describe that, uh, for
people or two of 'em, one is like, get on an elevator and face the wrong way. Like if you're the
first person on there, don't face the door, face the back.
Next person on will stand there right next to you and face back the elevator or going down the
sidewalk, walking down. Say you say you're on, like a busy sidewalk. Stop, turn around and like
point and look. Everybody will stop and see what you're looking at. Every single person will, but
it's just, it is like [00:16:00] this condition response and it's, uh, it is, it's pretty amazing.
Jake: and that to me was, once I learned that lesson, that was really big, that if I said certain
things or did certain things, or even if I got onto a Zoom call, I. A different way I could control the
trajectory of everything that happened, and not to a manipulation degree,
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: but to the point where I was no longer a passenger in the conversation.
I was now literally helping to drive this and controlling the direction it went.
Paden: yeah. I love the points you make there. It's not like about manipulating, it's about.
Understanding people to help them solve a problem they say they wanna solve. Right? Like,
you're helping them to solve a problem. This isn't manipulation. It's helping them think through
all these things and get to where, you know, they say they wanna be right.
Speaker: Are you looking for a new tax experience, looking for an advisor that actually brings
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And it is through the tax planning process where all the value is found. And when Tax Planning's
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From there, you can also book a free tax discovery call with our team [00:18:00] to see what it
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Paden: So, Jake, you've done a lot of things. Um, built a, pretty cool business here. So what,
makes you special? What do you think is your, meta skill here that has allowed you to do, kind
of everything that you've accomplished?
Jake: I will say it's a skill I developed over time that I did not have in my formative years. Uh,
and that's listening. I listen for everything. I listen for your verbal cues. I listen for your nonverbal
cues. Like I'll watch somebody's face where their eyes go, the way they react. And I think the
thing that's made somewhat of a success, and I hesitate to call myself successful, but I think the
thing that's made me, be able to grow over the years and expand my network is.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: I keep a careful eye on how much I talk,
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: what I respond to. [00:19:00] And when I was a kid it was not like that at all. You know, I
was anxious to talk over people and get really excitable. but I was fortunate 'cause when I was
growing up, I grew up in an age where kids were to be seen and not heard.
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: They didn't have this where, you know, nowadays I hear a parent, a child's interrupting a
conversation and the parent interrupts everything to address. Their child. Wasn't like that when I
was growing up.
Paden: Me
neither.
Jake: tried to interrupt, you were told to shut up, maybe even smacked, and then your turn.
Paden: I went to Catholic grade school,
Jake: Oh.
So, you know, but it, and in that light, my dad was a very prominent businessman in our
community. So I sat through countless meetings where I could see the interactions and once I
got behind, beyond those stupid teen years where you knew everything all the time and
Paden: Rebellion.
Jake: the universe, right? I started using that in business and I found that the ability to sell
without selling is hands down the most [00:20:00] valuable thing you can do, and 90% of that is
just listening.
Paden: You know what's cool now, and you, you know, you talk about listening and taking it
down to a tactic or whatnot, but like, um, AI makes that really amazing now, right? So you can
have every meeting and you get off that meeting, and I will know the percentage that Jake
talked, that Paden talked, that anybody talk.
So, um, it's amazing the tools you can have, like from a sales perspective, you wanna get
tactical. Um. All of that stuff can be measured and cheaply done with technology. Um, so it's like,
you know, we have the ability as business owners to get very professional in these areas. and
it's something personally I'm, I'm working on with my, own companies.
Jake: Well one of the things we built into Orchestrate, if I can do a
Paden: Yeah, absolutely.
Jake: uh, one of the things we built into Orchestrate was a transcript analysis. So it not only just
took away key points or took away takeaways and to-dos, I. But it does a psychological
breakdown of each [00:21:00] of the participants. It, it breaks down tone and biases, and it really
gives you an in-depth look as to if you did well, when did you do well, and how did you do well?
All the way down to, hey, listen at, at five minutes and 32 seconds, you just lost them.
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: So it, I think we've underrated. The whole listening aspect of our business, we've gotten to
the point where listening is or, or, or feedback is a five star rating. And you know, that's all based
on the mood I'm in when I give you that rating.
And
Paden: And it, it's curated to get the.
Jake: E Exactly right. But listening is one of those things that you just don't hear very often, and
the hard part is payden. If somebody says you need to listen better. Very few people can tell you
how to do that.
Paden: or you might even just flat out get defensive. Right. And shut down.
Jake: Correct?
Yeah. I actually developed something I call the two 10 rule over the years to help [00:22:00]
people listen better.
So the two 10 rule says for every two minutes you talk, you check in, and you check in with
something really short. Does that make sense? How does that appeal to you? Any type of little
check-in question. Then every 10 minutes you say, you know what, Payton, I've been gathering
for 10 minutes now. It probably didn't make a lot of sense.
Any questions on the last, you know, little bit that we've talked to each other and I actually have
representatives when I work with 'em, do a stopwatch and if you can get into the habit of doing
two and 10. It not only forces you to listen better and to focus on what they said, but it constantly
shows you are listening and makes them want to reveal more.
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: just by watching those two in 10 timelines, it's amazing the difference it can make.
Paden: Wow. Yeah, no, that's, um, yeah, I don't know that I've ever heard that tax before. That
That sounds very, a very [00:23:00] practical
yeah. Well it's fascinating 'cause one thing I heard, oh my god, many, many moons ago. 'cause I
was born like five times many moons ago, and one thing I heard was, for every 10 minutes you
talk, you generate two minutes worth of questions.
Mm-hmm.
Jake: And I thought, wow, that's fascinating. So I thought, if you turn that on its head and you
check in every two minutes, then try to summarize it every 10 minutes.
Maybe it'll make a difference. And I worked with a company two years ago, that's, that's all we
did was we got their sales team to do that, and it, it doubled their sales just because the reps
were understanding what was going
Paden: Yeah. What, what's the actual problem?
Because like, like you said, if you just blow through that, you're just yapping at the people
throwing all the stuff. And you see this, especially with newer salespeople, they're kind of
nervous and they just word vomit all over everybody. Um, people will just nod along with you
and say they understand. You know what I mean? Like they're not going to like their pride or
ego. They're just [00:24:00] like, oh yeah. Yep, definitely. Yep. And
Jake: Yeah.
Paden: they don't know everything you're saying. They don't. So give them time and space to
be able to like, Hey, I don't know what's going on. Right. Like make it a comfortable environment
for them to be able to do that.
Jake: Yep. And even say to them, I get it. I probably flubbed it along somewhere along the way,
so tell me what I glossed over that you need more
Paden: Yeah,
Jake: And you know it, it's funny, Paden. 'cause if you do small things like that, it doesn't feel
like it's gonna do a lot,
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: but it does a lot. And I know that's vague and, and almost sounds dumb as I say it, but it's
just the small things that make the difference. We keep thinking, we're looking for the stellar
lightyear jump that has to happen.
Paden: Oh yeah.
Jake: And the reality is it can be just a tiny tweak to your point from earlier. It can be one word
that makes all the [00:25:00] difference.
Paden: Yeah. Yeah, I had a great example of that. So, you know, I'm in a networking group and,
you know, we do board rooms and talk about, you know, what's going on in our business and
whatnot. And, um, I had a guy in the business and he put a job at it, add out, and, um, it was out
there for like four months or something, and zero applicants.
Um, he went to a consultant, you know, they got really in depth of. Okay, what kind of person are
we looking for here? Changed like three words in it, and in two days he had seven applicants all
like qualified and he had to figure out which one he wanted to hire.
Jake: Well, here's a great example for your listeners. There was a social psychology study done
called the Xerox Study, and it was done in the copy room of a New York public library.
So what happened was they told the interns, we want you to butt in line at the copier. And as
you can expect, new Yorkers are not real great with you butting in line.
So they said, okay, since they won't let you button line, ask them and give them a because
[00:26:00] statement, but make it valid. So because I need to button line at the copier because
my car's double parked because I'm late for dinner because my wife's at the doctor and I need
to get there. Something like that.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: It increased compliance by 60%. On the surface. That's not really impressive. People are
just trying to be nice. You have a good reason. What's wild is when they changed the study and
said, I'd like to jump in line to make copies because I need to make copies.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: Nonsensical, ridiculous, dumb reason. And yet, compliance was still almost at that 60%.
Paden: level, right? Yep.
Jake: So it really comes down to the word, because can make a huge difference. It taps into the
human need for understanding cause and effect. And you have a child, dad, why is the sky
blue? Why don't fish drown when they breathe? You know, it's, well because this and because
that [00:27:00] we're raised on it. And so tapping into that, because hits kind of a weird instinct
with people.
That's why I tell business owners and salespeople, if you're not using the word, because you're
missing a huge, huge piece of your message.
Paden: That's a, that's a writer downer there, guys.
Jake: Yeah. And it's to your point, from the ad, it's just one word
Paden: Yeah. once again that, that it amazes me and speaks to, you know, speaks to just how,
uh, manipulated we can be. Right. And, I've read other books from former CIA people and stuff
like that, and they talk about like how laughable. Like how laughable, laughably, predictable
humans are and how, you know, the, the CIA designs these whole situations to where, you
know, one of their agents just bumps into the person, right?
Like, and then they, they know exactly how to befriend them and it's [00:28:00] amazing. And
like two months later that person's telling the CIA everything they know, um, because they
orchestrated this whole experience, right? And the people have no idea. And they know how to
play on that person because they've studied that person.
They know how to totally play on that person without them even realizing.
Jake: Well, it's funny you say that because you know, in the COP shows you always see a, a
cop bring a perp into the room to interview them, and the first thing they do is offer them a cup of
coffee or a Coke, or do you need a cigarette
Paden: reciprocal, right.
Jake: Yeah, they're counting on the reciprocation law, which basically says, you know, if I give
you something nice, you'll give me the information I need.
But most people who watch the show say, oh yeah, they're just, they're doing that to be nice, but
it's all calculated with a specific response they're looking for. Uh, it's scary. I mean, we back to
the free will thing. Um, we have precious little of it. We really do.
Paden: yeah, yeah. So Jake defining success. what is your definition of success? [00:29:00]
Like, how would you say, maybe you had a definition of success 10 years ago and, and, and
maybe you have a different one now.
can you kind of speak to kind of what those were and, and maybe how have those changed?
Jake: I think years ago it was not specific. You know, I had this goal of I wanted to be the
director of a corporation, and, and I'll be honest with you, it was all about having the title director.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: I mean, let's face it, it's the vanity
Paden: Yeah. The ego thing, right.
Jake: Yeah. So, you know, I had that goal and I got there, and when I got there.
I realized it wasn't kind of a finish line, it was like, well, crap, now I'm here. But I never thought
about beyond that.
Paden: Yeah,
Jake: And for the longest time it was money. I wanna hit a certain goal, I wanna have a certain
income a year. And once I hit that
Paden: still wasn't satisfied, were you?
Jake: it was again, the whole thing of, well, what do I do now?
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: Um, but a couple of things that changed the way I viewed things were. As I discussed you
offline, [00:30:00] and I certainly don't mind sharing this people, I, I was addicted to painkillers
for a couple of years and it changed my perspective once I went through rehab and things like
that. Uh, at the time I was going through that, I lost my marriage, lost my house.
It was devastating.
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: But the great thing about it was it gave me a different version of success. After that, my
version of success was I'd like to be married again, but to somebody where I look forward to
being with them at night. And I love the conversations and my health became a success marker,
and it was no longer about money.
And what's really weird is when I lost track of the money, I got more of it.
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: When it became more about just being happy and pursuing passions, the money
followed. So it was just kind of a bizarre thing for me that success was first about a a dollar
[00:31:00] sign,
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: and when it became more about pursuing what made me happy, the dollar signs followed.
And I'm not sure I have a great rational reason for that, but it was a weird life lesson that I've
kept with me. Now I just follow my passions and I'm amazed at how many opportunities just
open up because of that, and that leads to the money I.
Paden: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, what popped in my head when you were kind of
talking through that was. You know, everybody talks about, you know, the idea of like chasing
success or whatever, and it's like you really don't chase success, right? You shouldn't chase for
success.
You should attract success. Um, and, and the way to do that was Jake, you know, he hit rock
bottom in his life there, you know, whereabouts, right?
Jake: Yeah. Yep.
Paden: and, and that was the pivot point, right? And that is where he was at. You know, at that
bottom, at the, you know, maybe the, you know, one of the worst moments of his life that he
[00:32:00] decided I'm gonna start working on myself, right?
And as soon as he started working on himself, he started building that up, right? And building
himself up and strengthening himself. And then, you know, the amazing thing is once you
strengthen yourself and get past, you know, you know, Jake is, you know, however many years
past that now is.
Jake: I'm proud to say,
Paden: That is amazing.
That used to be, I, I bet, you know, 12 years ago, that was a big embarrassment to Jake.
Jake: oh.
Paden: never, would've never said this on a podcast. Right. Um, but the amazing thing is, is
when you do the work on yourself and push past that and like, you know, he broke, I. The chains
of all that is, then it becomes your biggest story, your biggest testimony, your biggest opportunity
to inspire other people.
that's the amazing thing is like when you beat your own battles, you inspire the hell out of
everybody. Especially when you get brave enough after you've beaten it, to tell people about it,
to inspire the people about it. Right? Like, uh, ed, ed Myla, have you ever listened to him? Big
[00:33:00] podcaster. He always talks about like you are.
You are the perfect person to help the person that you used to be. Right? Like, and we, we talk
Jake: Oh, I like that.
Paden: Yeah. Jake and I talked a little bit about AA and stuff like that, and the, the, the final step
in AA is you have to go serve others, right? Like that's the only way to stay sober is to go back
and help you know, the person you used to be, right.
Jake: Yeah, yeah. And, and to kind of wrap that up, Payton, my definition of success is, is much
different now. And reframing that success has, has made me a boatload happier. I.
Paden: Yeah. Yeah. And then the funny thing is, how many of your goals just like fall, I don't
wanna say fall in your lap, but like, same with me. Same, you know, same kind of path. You
know, like I, I really started to work on myself and like. The doors that are open for me now, like,
because I've become, you know, I've tried to develop myself into, who I aspire to be.
But like the opportunities I have that come [00:34:00] to me are like things I would've fallen outta
my chair of 10 years ago. Right? Like, why, you know? but that's because I've put myself in a
position to where people want, to work with me or I've attracted that right.
Jake: It's interesting to use that word attracted.
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Jake: I think that is probably the other secret is are you pursuing clients or are you attracting
them? And there is a catastrophically large chasm between the two of those things.
Paden: Well, and it's like who has the leverage in that, you know, in that relationship to a degree
too, right.
Jake: Right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think once you go beyond pursuing clients to
attracting them, it's a much different story. And a great example of that, Payton, is we always
think I have to say, yes, I have to offer a discount. I have to do a rebate, and that's gonna do it.
But what's funny is if you tell a client no.
I'm not gonna do that for [00:35:00] you because
Paden: yep.
Jake: all of a sudden you are more attractive
Paden: Mm-hmm.
Yes. And I, I have an extremely real example of that. I was on a call yesterday, with a, you know,
a guy interested in, of our tax planning services and whatnot, right? And it was kind of like an
intro call, get to know each other, and, um, you know, he's in a position, he's trying to get his
business in a position to where it really makes sense to work with us.
And, you know, he asked me to kind of like, Hey, can you kind of do this one off thing because
I'm not quite ready for you and whatnot. And I said, no, I. and here's why.
You know, I didn't just say no, and I said, here's why. Because we can only help so many
people, right? We, we have a team here, we have a process. Um, we have a process that we
purposely design to help, um, people in an efficient manner. And, and like by me stepping out of
that process, it monkeys the whole thing up, right?
So it's like, It's being able to be very clear about what you want, how you work, all those types of
things. And, when [00:36:00] you're so clear about that and who you work with and your
messaging, you attract the right people and, people, will come to you that want that stuff. And,
and it's either like, Hey, get on the train or get off.
Right. It's not like a, it's not a sales thing. I'm not trying to convince anybody ever to get on the
train.
Jake: Yeah, well, it's the principle of wanting what you can't have.
You know, it's the reason people buy things way above their head. It's the reason spouses cheat
on each other. You want that thing that you can't have, and as soon as you tell somebody you
can't have my services,
Paden: It's even more valuable.
Jake: my God, yet now people are like, but I have to.
I'll pay you double the price.
Paden: Name
your price.
Jake: yeah, there's a lot of secrets that I think are contrary to what we learn in business or we
think we know. And, uh, just nailing those things one thing at a time, making those small
changes can make all the difference.
Paden: Yeah. And it's, obviously having the mindset of being a continuous learner, right? Um,
being humble, right? Humble [00:37:00] humility, uh, because your ego is stopping you from
learning any of these things, right? Um, and you know, me included, right? We all, we all do that.
Humility's a big thing. You know? It's like hard work mixed with humility and all those things.
Jake: I think ego keeps us from doing a lot of things.
Paden: Oh, massive. Because you'll never start because you don't wanna look like an idiot
because it hurts your ego.
Jake: Yeah. Yeah.
Paden: No, we're all too scared to start, right? Yeah, great quote here. Uh, I, I think it might be
from Hermo or something, but he is like, no one's afraid of failure. Everyone's afraid of what
other people will think of them, you know, failing at something.
It is not about you being afraid of failure because like, you'll play a video game all day long and
fail at it, and you know, because you're practicing and trying, like, you're not afraid to fail at that.
It's, it's other people's opinion of your failure that you're actually afraid of.
Jake: Well, and for the people who don't believe that, here's a great example. There's a lot of
people who don't believe that and say, I don't care what other people think, so then do me a
[00:38:00] favor, buy a new car and don't tell anyone. And nobody does that
Paden: Yeah.
Jake: it. The first thing you says is, I got a new car, golfers. I got a new driver, and I drove 10
more yards than I did normally.
Are you gonna tell me? You're not gonna tell people about that, right? We all care what other
people think, and as soon as we realize that, and we can minimize that for the failure side, we
become a lot more successful at life learning and even our check and our ego at the door.
Paden: Yeah, and I, that was something I, I think I really struggled with as a, as a fairly social
person, right? Like I'm, I'm very, you know, I'm high on the, like, extrovert or what, you know.
Very good at, you know, relating with people. Right. And, the downside of that is that, is that I am
very sensitive.
Like I'm watching people, I'm reading people, you know, just kind of naturally that's my
personality. And so yeah, that makes me as a person that really cares what they think.
[00:39:00] Right. And that,
Jake: Yep.
Paden: you know, that can certainly, it held me back for a long, long time.
Jake: Right, and listen, there's, there's nothing wrong with that inherently, So it, it's just how
much do you care and how much do you let it dominate your ability to move forward? That, I
think is the real question.
Paden: Yeah, you know, to some degree you need to be a polite member of society to, to have
the benefits, right? Of being a member of society. But then at the same time, like it really pays to
be contrarian in certain ways, right? Like, because like, you follow the crowd, like at best you're
gonna get average results, right?
You know, there's certain ways you're gonna be like, okay, the crowd does this stupid, I do it this
way. Um, and, and there's advantages in that too. So you gotta spot those right things
Jake: Well, and look at the people who took that philosophy and what they did. You know, Walt
Disney, one of his famous sayings was, I look at what everybody else does. And then I do the
exact opposite. Now, granted, he filed for bankruptcy five times in his process. But I mean, look
at [00:40:00] what, who doesn't know Disney?
I mean, could we argue that Mickey Mouse isn't one of the top one or two most recognizable
characters on the planet?
Paden: Yeah, I mean, of all humanity, right? Like literally like all of humankind, like he's gotta be,
you know, top 20 or something, right?
Jake: Right. Yeah. It all started with a mouse.
Paden: Yeah. And, you know, well, by the way, I, I live, uh, about an hour and a half south of his
boyhood home in, uh, Marline, Missouri, a tiny little farm before they, the family. The family, uh,
like were unsuccessful farmers here and then moved out to California.
Um, so yeah, they did, they had a lot of business problems, for sure.
Jake: Nice. Yeah.
Paden: Well, Jake, man, this has been amazing conversation. You're, uh, uh, fantastic to talk to.
What's the best way people can connect with you, get to know more about you, your company,
or just, you know, kind of follow you and soak up your, uh, your knowledge.
Jake: Well, you, you can reach me primarily on LinkedIn, and that's under Jake Stahl, S-T-A-H-
L-O, LinkedIn. I'm [00:41:00] the one that looks like me for those of you looking, listening to only
the audio. Uh, I also have a company called Orchestrate. That's orchestrate where the straight
is spelled S-T-R-A-I-G-H-T, and you can also find orchestrate.com, which is the AI that's created
to think like I do about things and create high impact messaging.
So you can contact me through either the website or you can contact me on LinkedIn.
Paden: Awesome, Jake, appreciate you. Anything you wanna leave for the listeners before you
go?
Jake: I would just say take it one day at a time and do incremental changes each day, even if
it's just half of 1% and at the end of the year, you'll be amazed at how far you've come.
Paden: A hundred percent. You know, if you wanna change anything in your life, like find one
tiny thing that you do daily and change that, wait a year and see how far that gets you. Uh, you
let that thing compound out. It makes a big difference. Jake, appreciate you listeners. We'll catch
you next time.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for [00:42:00] listening to the podcast. If you found it valuable,
please rate, review, and share it. That is the best way to help us build this and reach more
people as we're trying to accomplish our goal of help creating more healthy, wealthy, and wise
entrepreneurs. You can follow us on social media by searching for me Paden Squires.
Or going to padensquires.com on the website and social media. We're always sharing tips of
personal growth and there we can actually interact. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks guys.
