79: How to Leverage Podcasting to Scale Your Business

Behind Their Success: Episode 79

Liz: [00:00:00] I think a lot of people come to us immediately wanting to be on Joe Rogan it's not just being about being on that one big podcast that's going to, to sell your product or to make your brand.

Paden: Hello everybody. Welcome to Behind Their Success Podcast. I am Paden Spires, the host, and today we have on Liz Brooks. Liz is a client account manager and interview valet with a focus on podcast interview, marketing and pr. She has experience at top media outlets and PR agencies. Liz is dedicated to helping small and medium businesses and brands connect with her audiences through strategic storytelling. Liz, welcome on Behind Their Success.

Liz: Hi Paden. Thanks for having me.

Paden: Yeah. Liz, so you work at Interview Valet in the podcasting space. Tell us a little bit about what you do there.

Liz: yeah, so I work with clients to develop their story and strategy to connect, with. Potential

leads [00:01:00] through podcast interview marketing. Um, so essentially I am a matchmaker in

between my clients and podcasters such as yourselves, in order to find their target audience

and spread their message in a different, in a, in a different way versus traditional pr, uh, which is

kind of like where my specialty lies.

Paden: Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah, no, so, you know, Liz and, and definitely her company

have sent me, a lot of my guests, right. A lot of the cool guests that we've had on, on the show,

which I really, uh, really appreciate that. But, you know, kind of looking into the podcasting space

itself, Liz, like, what? What makes it unique or why, why are you so excited about the podcasting

space versus maybe some other more traditional type of marketing or messaging?

Liz: You know, I was a very early adopter to podcasts. I did a lot of commuting. Um, and I found

it as a

Paden: I.

Liz: keep myself entertained and learn while, you know, kinda like killing that time. Um, and then

I started doing it more [00:02:00] than just commuting. I started listening to podcasts all the time.

and so when I started.

Working with traditional PR agencies. I brought to the table even when I was, I think I was still

an intern when I mentioned, you know, have we considered podcasting,

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: you know, for some of our

Paden: I'm sure they all blew you off right now.

Liz: Um, a couple did, yeah, so I kind of started. building that part, of our campaigns with

clients that I started working with. And then by the time I was at my second agency, I was kind of

owning, the podcasting space for

Paden: Very cool.

Liz: that we were working on. So eventually I started doing that full-time. What I really love

about podcasting and what I think separates it from traditional PR is that it really lets. The

listener or the audience, see who you are. Personally, it's a much, it's a much more casual, but I

think also efficient way to connect with people with traditional pr.

Right? It's written material, which first of [00:03:00] all. I think a lot more people are starting to, to

listen, you know, versus like sitting down and reading things on their phone. We're still doing

that, obviously. so like, I've helped write a lot of newsletters or blogs that are, you know,

supposedly from the writer itself, but. there's so many filters involved. There's the staff that's

helping write, then there's the actual journalist that's editing that. So by the time you're actually

reading the material, I think of it almost like, you're looking at an Instagram picture of somebody

with like three or four filters on it.

You

Paden: Layered on top of each other.

Liz: like, you know, it.

Paden: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liz: And it doesn't instill trust, you know, it feels fake. So I think when, you know, like you and I

are talking right now, there is no filter. You are listening to me for who I am. If I make a mistake,

you're gonna hear it. Um, so I think, you know, it's a much more personal way to connect with

people, but I think not only does it build, help, build authority over time, but I think it helps build

trust and that's really important.

Paden: Yeah. and, uh, something that attracted me to doing this [00:04:00] myself. You know,

I'm, I'm in the money world and trust is like everything, right? Trust and relationships and Right.

And, and the big benefit of me, doing a podcast like this, right? And, and I get to set up my own

stage right. And play on it.

Uh, and the cool thing is too is you know, when I get amazing guests like you and, and other

people, it's like I get to. borrow their authority, right? I'm on the same stage as them, right? And

that puts authority in, in people's minds. And, and it's like, wow, you know, Peyton's talking to

this person and whoa, you know, that kind of thing.

So you're playing, you can, you can purposely put yourself on a stage with other people and

their credibility kind of rubs off on you, right?

Liz: absolutely. And that's all, you know, the podcast interview marketing doesn't just end with

the interview itself. It's, you know, what you're doing afterwards when you're promoting the

content, you're, you're still, you know, I'm gonna tag you. It, it still helps like build that connection

and again, that, that authority together.

Paden: Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:00] And that's, uh, something personally I'm getting better at. So

even after, you know, a year and a half of this and then a bunch of episodes that, uh. Yeah, I'm

finally closing the loops and making sure we're doing everything we're supposed to do with all

the content and we're following up with all the stuff and, and so that all the work I, you know, me

and my team are putting in this, you know, we're capturing everything we can capture outta it,

right?

Liz: Yeah, absolutely.

Paden: So, you know, you've done a lot of different marketing stuff, podcasts. now, Liz, you

specifically, what skill do you really bring to the table of like, what, what do you think, you know,

is your kind of special skill that you bring? You know, obviously to the marketing space that

you're, you know, your subject matter, you know, expertise, but like, what do you think

differentiates you and make you really successful at that?

I think I really try to find the human element that's gonna stand out for my clients. You know,

when I we're onboarding, I ask somebody, you know. What do you do? What is the problem that

you help solve? And then what differentiates you from the other people who are helping solve

that same problem? You know? what is going to attract the audience to connect to you

[00:06:00] specifically? And a lot of times it's not about the product that they're selling, it's not

about the app that they're about to launch, it's about their personal story and how they got there,

what their motivation is. and you know how that's going to connect with hosts and with listeners

too, because. if we bring you a client who's just trying to sell a product, you're not gonna wanna

have them on. You don't want somebody who's just a

Paden: Yeah, yeah.

Liz: interesting story. That's what people wanna hear. That's what people

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: connect with. Um, so I think that is a huge part of my strategy when working with clients is,

is finding that element. and then also I think sometimes it's about being able to, to shift

sometimes throughout a campaign to being flexible. Sometimes I. Trying something first, like

without asking, I don't wanna say like without asking permission, but trying something and

asking

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: later and seeing if

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think a really great example, um, one of my clients who was in the

health and wellness [00:07:00] space, they were really going after. Gen Z millennials, they really

wanted the younger market. and we were finding a little bit of success, but it just wasn't hitting.

We were also trying to go after like some of the really bigger shows, and we did get a couple of

them and they weren't seeing the ROI that they wanted.

so I was brainstorming. I talked to my team, and then we decided what if we went after the older

market. Because they are the ones that are really going to be into this product. They're the ones

that

Paden: Hmm.

Liz: to be healthier, the ones that are thinking about longevity.

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: we started going for like the after 40 crowd. Um,

Paden: Big market.

Liz: it was, it was a hit. And so, you know, I had to turn around and come to them and be like, I

know that this is your strategy and that this is the audience that you've been targeting. But I just

talked to these hosts and they really wanna talk to you. Do you have an open mind? Are you

gonna be flexible about this?

And they [00:08:00] did.

Paden: Good

Liz: and even those, you know, those shows were smaller, but they got so many more

conversions for

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: Um, so I think. You know, you gotta think on your feet sometimes if something's not

working, you have

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: figure something else out. Um, and yeah, that's, that's something that I do as well.

Paden: Yeah, and it's something in my journey, you know, and I've said on here before, it's like

thinking about like, I'm, I'm an analytical guy and like branding and marketing, just like naturally

use, I would say even in the past, like was. It's not my kind of thing, or not something I thought a

lot about.

Um, but actually naturally, I, when I started diving into marketing and stuff, I really have a big

appreciation for brand building and marketing and, and all those things and everything that goes

into that. And the huge advantages of, you know, actually building a brand that means

something. Um, the huge advantages that gives you tactically in business.

storytelling is something that I've, um, I [00:09:00] really. say I really fall in love with the art of

storytelling or, the way to influence people through stories. and going down that track. Is there

anything, you know, and I'm just kind of rambling on here, is there anything you wanna speak to,

like storytelling or, you know, stuff from your point of view?

Liz: You know, I think. Storytelling is everything, what PR is about. We're always talking about

storytelling in pr. Um, I actually, I fell into PR kind of by accident because I'm, I'm a musician. I'm

in a band. I've been doing this my whole life. but back in the day I was. Trying to get coverage

for the projects that I was

Paden: Mm-hmm.

Liz: how am I going to get attention, you know, from these journalists to come to my show, to

promote my show, et cetera. and so I figured out like it's not just about the music, you know, like

you have to stand out, you have to build a

Paden: Mm-hmm.

Liz: in my situation, I happened to be in a relationship, uh, with somebody else in the band.

So it was kind of like. Learning that [00:10:00] it wasn't just like promoting the product itself. Like

we had to build this story about who we were and why we were special and why we were

interesting. And at the time I thought like, this is pretty silly. Uh, but ultimately that's also what

the songs are about, right?

That's

Paden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Liz: Um, so that's kind of how I started doing that. And I was like building media lists before I

even knew what media lists were.

but that storytelling is something that has been a constant thread throughout my entire career

when it started, you know, with traditional pr. focusing on podcast interview marketing,

storytelling is still number one at the end of the day.

Paden: Yeah, people remember stories. We remember stuff in stories like, you know, like all of

history is just like a story told.

Liz: They ended Game of Thrones, that huge show that we were all obsessed with. I think the

last line in it is from Terry and Lannister and he says something like, people love a good story.

Paden: They do. They [00:11:00] do. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, they, they absolutely do. But by the

way, I've never watched a second Game of Thrones.

I miss all the TV shows. Like, I don't know, I just. I just can't, I can't make myself invest the time.

I just can't do it. Like I'm the weirdo, like watching, you know, like the Lewis and Clark

documentary of them exploring the United States or something like that.

But,

Liz: Have you gotten into World War II yet?

Paden: uh, a little bit like I'm the old guy that, you know, yeah. Likes to watch the History

channel and, you know, I guess, you know, maybe builds, you know, I don't put train sets in my

basement, but there's a lot of old guys that do this.

I am not, I'm not there yet. I'm still in, you know, I'm still hanging, I still haven't hit 40, so we're

hanging off. So, Liz, yeah. Interesting story. So you, you know, grasp onto the idea to, you know,

a fairly early age, right? you know, thinking about that personal brand stuff back in 2015. That

you know me, I don't even know if I even knew what that meant in 2015. Right. and you

[00:12:00] know, e even if I did, you know, at some point in there I learned about it and then I

waited another f, you know, five years to start executing on a lot of marketing's the long game.

It's the drip, it's the slow drip, it's the branding, it's the slow associations, the, um, you know,

creating your brand and associated it with great guests or different people and, and that type of

stuff that, you know, brand building is much different than like marketing tactics.

Right. you wanna speak to that a little bit?

Liz: Yeah, I think you know when you're. you're brand building, especially if you're an

entrepreneur or a business owner, I think you have to look at it from two perspectives. You're

building the brand for your business, for your product, but you're also building your personal

brand too, especially when you're putting yourself out there to get those leads. Um, and that,

that does go hand in hand with marketing. Um, but you know, marketing is a little bit inherently

salesy,

Paden: Yeah.

Tactical, like, you know, [00:13:00] the tactics of it, right?

Liz: Whereas a brand is just what you are, the impression that people get from you, you know,

Paden: Mm-hmm.

Liz: the branding helps the marketing

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: I think, like you have to focus on that first, and then the marketing comes second.

If you are just marketing and you don't know what your brand is, or your brand is bad, it's not

gonna work.

Paden: Yeah. Yeah. And you're, you know, then you're in just like a fight over price and,

whatever, right? Like, if you're, you, you, if you don't have a brand, you're not, you don't mean

anything to anybody. Um,

it took me a long time to realize a lot of that, the brand building and, and you know, once again,

it's like, I wish I would've.

Done it five years ago, but at least, you know, I, I've started doing it for a couple years and it's

like, it's like the, the whole thing, it's like when you wanna plant a tree was like 20 years ago and

the second best time to do is like right now, right? So like, you know, encourage anybody that

isn't thinking at this level of like, especially if you're in like professional services or anything

where the business is kind of revolved around you, realtors, you know, stuff like that.

That personal [00:14:00] branding, man, it's everything because you kind of are the business,

right? In a lot of ways.

Liz: Yeah, and you, you have to build that over time. And also I think the stronger the brand, the

better the leads you're gonna get, the better the clients because people are coming.

Paden: Closing's easy then, right?

Liz: Exactly.

Paden: so say some of the listeners here are looking at maybe even using podcast, you know,

interview as like a strategy for themselves. Like what. How do you guys look at, or how should

the entrepreneur look at like what type of shows or what, you know, how do they even decide

what kind of shows to go on?

Liz: So I think a lot of people come to us immediately wanting to be on Joe Rogan or those big

Paden: Yeah, can you get me on there please?

Liz: You know, the first question is, why do you wanna get on there? Like, is is your product or is

your story going to be relevant to this show? Or do you just wanna be there because it's the, the

biggest or the only podcast that you've heard about? Right. So I think. That's something that we

work with a lot with our clients, especially when we're developing our strategy.

It's that [00:15:00] better is better, not bigger is better. We look at more targeted shows, more

targeted audiences. Um, and then also, you know, the, the quantity of the shows is important too

because as we've been talking about, you have to build that brand

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: And the more content you put out there, the more you're gonna show up. You know, on AI

searches, SEO, et cetera. Um, so it's not just being about or being on that one big podcast that's

going to, to sell your product or to make your brand. and that kind of goes back to the story that I

was talking about with my client in that health and wellness space where

Paden: Mm-hmm.

Liz: those bigger shows, but we didn't see the ROI.

Then we went after these smaller, more targeted shows and we started seeing a lot of

conversions there. So

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: that we work with a lot. I look at it again, like back to musician metaphor, but you know, I

can get a gig at a farmer's market where I'm gonna be in front of probably a thousand people

throughout the day, but they're not there for me.

They're there for the food. I'm in [00:16:00] the background, like they're not gonna come to my

next show. They're not gonna follow me online

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: You know, if I'm playing at a small club on a Wednesday night at 11, that sucks because I'm

old. But

Paden: Some diehards in that club though.

Liz: the people who are there are there because they love

Paden: Mm-hmm.

Liz: 'cause they love my kind of

Paden: Mm-hmm.

Liz: I'm gonna get out of playing that smaller show versus playing this huge farmer's market in

the middle of the day.

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: I look at podcasts the same way, you know, look at. The targeted shows where the people

that you wanna talk to actually listen, um, and then find more of those. Find lookalikes.

That's, that's what we do too. You know, we find the shows that are the right fit and then from

there we go and find lookalike shows to get on as many of those as possible to, you know, build

that brand, build that authority, and most of all, build that trust.

Paden: Yeah, You know, going on one big show, you know, it's like, that's great. And, you

[00:17:00] know, maybe even, maybe even say it is your perfect audience or whatever, but like,

moving on after that. Like, you, you need to have like consistent, you know, you need to be a

consistent person or like, you know, like when you go and Google my name.

you go to YouTube and there's like hundreds of videos there, right? Like, so, so example, I'm,

you know, talking to somebody about, you know, my day job and selling services over there and,

you know, they go Google me and they're like, oh, well this guy's real, he's not some crazy guy

on the internet or, or whatever, right?

Like, it just makes that, closing process. I mean, they're, they're just warm. You're just gonna

close a whole lot more stuff because people already know and like you and trust you.

Liz: Exactly. Yeah. And it's gonna be less work too. Like you're not gonna have to hire a

marketing or a sales staff, you know, to send a bunch of cold leads out there.

Paden: you're talking about like quality over quantity. Um, that's really been a big focus of mine

in a lot of areas and.

if you're gonna dedicate X number of hours to this, it needs to be, let's focus on quality, right?

Um, and, you know, if you [00:18:00] have extra time, okay, maybe you can explore in some

other things. But, um, let's, let's make sure we're getting results out of it.

Liz: Yeah. And what's great now, um, the podcasting space has come such a long way in the,

what I consider short period of time that I've been working in it, even though again, I. Not to age

myself, it's longer than I think, but we have, we have so many tools now at our disposal, not just

chat GBT, but all these different like licensed databases that we use to be able to find those

shows, to be able to find those audiences, those demographics, like what they're listening to.

there's just an insane amount of tools at our disposal now to be able to like really find those

targeted shows. So it's, it's a great time to. Great time to be alive, but it's a great time to be in

podcasting

Paden: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it's weirdly enough, I guess I found out

what a podcast was when I was in college. This was like, I don't know, 2007 or something. and I

used to listen some podcasts [00:19:00] in college. I think I downloaded them to my iPod at the

time.

but you know, it is kind of interesting what really got me into the space is it wasn't, um, I didn't

have this big grand plan or anything. I just knew that, okay, I should probably start building an

audience. I should probably start building an email list.

Like everybody I know, like entrepreneurs wise are like, I. You need to build an audience, you

need to build an email list, you need to do all these things. And, and then I, you know, I met a

guy and he's become a really close friend of mine, and he does podcasting a really, you know,

high level. By that I mean he's done like a thousand shows or 500 shows or something.

and getting around him and I'm like, well, he can do that. Why can't I? And that's, you know, kind

of the point of all this is like, you can do this too. Like, you know, I may say.

Liz: accessible.

Paden: Yeah, and I may sound somewhat polished on here or whatever, but guess what guys?

Liz and I have made mistakes and the editor is edited out.

You guys dunno about it.

They're gonna edit it out. So the awesome thing is too, like, you [00:20:00] know, with good

editing, and obviously you know, you're smart, you, you say good things like. The, the editor's

also gonna make you even probably even look smarter than you're, you can come across even

smarter than you're so, you know, it, it's a great way to be open and authentic and, and, you

know, talk to your clients without, you know, it being some weird sales type thing.

Liz: Yeah. And at the end of the day, even with the editing, it's, you know, you're not putting

words in my mouth. It is still, you know me. So

Paden: Yes.

Liz: coming across. yeah, and then again, it doesn't really just stop with the interview, you know,

you can

you can put the transcript in, you can turn that into a blog if you do wanna still like go with that

written content. there's like exponential value now of what you can

Paden: Yeah.

Liz: with repurposing and spreading your brand. With each interview. With each interview.

Exactly. Yeah. You can build a content calendar just off of the interviews that you

Paden: Yeah, you can repurpose everything, right? Like it's just, you can use it over and over

again. If you do, you do a bunch of these, like you'll have content forever, [00:21:00] like if you

do these, you know, fairly consistently, right?

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Paden: Say, we got a list right now. It's all jacked up. Liz. They're a successful entrepreneur and

they want to get into podcast interview like, oh, this kind of sounds like a interesting idea. What

one piece of advice would you give them? Just kind of starting out.

Liz: know what your message is. Know who you're trying to reach, and take a targeted

approach. Don't, don't do the spray and pray method. Also talk to talk to somebody that knows

what they're doing. You know, you got into it because you had a friend. Don't go into it alone.

first of all, listen, to those podcasts that you wanna be on.

Don't just expect that you're gonna be on them from intro. Um, but, and you know, ultimately

also you can come talk to us.

Paden: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, my experience with them, you know, I haven't used them

personally, but like, they've sent me a bunch of quality guests and, and, and do a good job. So if

you're certainly [00:23:00] interested in that and, you know, you're a busy entrepreneur and

you're like, I'd love to do that, but I don't wanna have the time to deal with any of that stuff.

Well, that's what they're for, is to make that really easy for you and you basically just show up

and do the interview.

Liz: Yep. White glove service is what we go for.

Paden: Yeah. Heck yeah. kind of just wrapping this up, Liz, what's the best way people can just

kind of connect with you or, you know, get to know more about you guys and, and kind of your

services.

Liz: you can find us@interviewvalet.com. You can also, um, find me@interviewvalet.com slash

liz. You can connect with me through there. And then I'm also on LinkedIn. There's a lot of, Liz

Brooks is out there. I.

Paden: Common.

Liz: That came up the last time I searched. So it's, uh, Liz g Brooks, at LinkedIn. You can

connect with me through there as well.

Paden: Okay, well you gotta tell me the band name too.

Liz: sunset Lines. We actually, we have an album coming up this year, so,

Paden: Okay, so tell me like, what, what style music I'm assuming. Uh, I don't wanna assume

you

Liz: it's like shimmery. Synth indie [00:24:00] pop a little bit.

Paden: Okay.

Liz: been compared to, um, a blend of Radiohead and no doubt without the

Paden: Okay. Yeah. And you got the, no doubt you got the, the band relationship thing too,

right? Like that was the no doubt thing.

Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.

California out there, right?

Liz: yeah, we, we go up and down the West Coast. Um, hopefully we'll get a little Pacific

Northwest tour. Um, I'm hoping later this year. Uh, but we'll see. Right now we're just around the

Bay Area, central California. We'll make it down to So Cal pretty soon, I think.

Paden: Awesome. Well, that's cool, Liz. Keep on rocking and helping people with guest. Uh, we

will catch you next time.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. If you found it valuable, please rate,

review, and share it. That is the best way to help us build this and reach more people as we're

trying to accomplish our goal of help creating more [00:25:00] healthy, wealthy, and wise

entrepreneurs. You can follow us on social media by searching for me Peyton Squires.

Or going to payton squires.com on the website and social media. We're always sharing tips of

personal growth and there we can actually interact. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks guys.