108: The S.A.F.E. Method – A Smarter Way to Invest in Real Estate
Behind Their Success: Episode 108
Paden: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome to Behind Their Success Podcast. I'm Paden
Squires, the host, and I got a question, what if losing everything became the launchpad for a
multimillion dollar comeback? Today on Behind their success, we reveal how Tom Dunkel the
entrepreneur, investor, and capital raising powerhouse, turned financial rock bottom into
unstoppable growth. Get ready for some real strategies and mindset shifts into doing so, Tom,
welcome on Behind Their Success.
Tom: Paden, it's great to be with you and all the listeners. Looking forward to our chat today.
Paden: Yeah, absolutely Tom. So, give the listeners a kind of high level story of like who Tom is,
what he does, and a little bit kind of how he, uh, how he got there.
Tom: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, uh, as you mentioned, uh, in the opening there, uh, it's been
anything but a straight line, you know, from, from here to there. but I guess that's, you know,
pretty typical in, in the entrepreneurial journey. So, uh, yeah, so I got outta business school in
[00:01:00] the, in the mid, mid nineties, you know, had a great education, uh, went into, uh,
mergers and acquisitions in the aerospace industry.
So I had a great foundation in, finance and raising capital and putting deals together. you know,
debt structures and private equity, you know, so I, I really learned a lot from there and, uh, just
was surrounded by really incredible people. so, you know, I continue to draw from that
experience, uh, just all these years later.
Um, so, you know. Fast forward a little bit. I was doing my corporate thing. Uh, 2006. I ended up
getting fired for my, uh, corporate job, which was a blessing in disguise. 'cause you know, I had
the golden handcuffs, you know, I had the, you know, the juicy salary as a VP of a public
company. I had the stock options.
And all this great stuff. But, uh, you know, so it made it hard to know like when to leave. 'cause I
knew I wanted to go do my own thing at some point, but, you know, you got a wife and young
kids at home, [00:02:00] you got the golden handcuffs. It makes it really hard to, to know when
to do that. So, uh, when that decision was made for me, um, I was like, okay, this is the signal.
you know, this is the sign I've been waiting for. That I, that I really do need to go out and. Start
my own thing. So, you know, thankfully I had, um, you know, I had some, some cash and a little
war chest to, to go out into the world and, you know, stake my claim and build my fortune and
my empire, et cetera.
So, um, but this was 2006 Paden. So I go into real estate. 2006. I,
Paden: Yikes.
Tom: yeah, yikes is right. So, you know, I'm trying to learn how to be an entrepreneur. I'm trying
to learn how to build a team, be a leader. I'm trying to learn, um, the real estate business. 'cause
up to that point, the only
Paden: Everybody was cashing checks, probably big time, right? No. Six, right?
Tom: exactly. Uh, the, the only, the only real estate deal I had done to that point was buying my
own personal home. [00:03:00] Uh, so, you know, I was trying to learn all these things all at
once and then,
Paden: Bottom fell out.
Tom: starts really moving against me. So that next thing I know, that little war chest of cash I
had set aside, you know, kind of went up.
In flames. And so, uh, uh, you know, here I am and call it 2000, 2008, 2009, like just getting.
Hammered from multiple directions and just trying to figure things out. 'cause to be perfectly
honest, I had like the worst upbringing possible to become an entrepreneur. I found, I figured
this out later, but you know, I had, I had two loving parents.
I was in,
Paden: Yeah, yeah,
Tom: I
Paden: yeah. Ideal childhoods are not.
Tom: childhood. You know, upper middle class. You know, we didn't, we weren't like super duper
wealthy or anything, but we, you know, we didn't, you know, went on vacations and played golf
and stuff like that. So, so, you know, I didn't really have any adversity
Paden: You don't, you're not, you're not like the rest of us with massive trauma.
Tom: Exactly. And so, so what's funny, Paden is along [00:04:00] my journey, I've met so many
people, they're like, oh yeah, I was a drug addict and I was living in my car and blah, blah, blah,
next thing.
And now they're worth, you know, eight figures or something. So, so I realized like I had to, I had
to really thicken up my skin and fast. And, um, so I, you know, I stayed, you know, stayed, uh,
determined to keep doing my own thing. You know, I was not gonna. Revert back and go back to
the corporate life. 'cause I knew that that just wasn't gonna get me where I knew I wanted to go.
And so, uh, it was about that time I found, uh, distressed mortgage debt. And so it seemed to
match up really well with my interest in real estate and my experience in the financial markets.
So I started buying, uh, distressed mortgages and had some early success. I found a partner,
uh, Joe Downs we're still business partners.
To this day, and we built a company called US Mortgage Resolution. That's done. [00:05:00] Uh,
at this point, over $63 million of revenue over that, over the last, you know, 15 years or so. Uh,
which isn't too bad for, you know, two guys and a couple of laptops and a couple of support
people. So that business has allowed us to go and try out some other things.
Um, so we've, we've tried and failed at Hard money lending. Uh, twice. We didn't learn our
lesson the first time. We had to go and
Paden: took two times, right? Yeah.
Tom: Uh, we were partners in a title company and then, you know, one of the partners turned
out to be cuckoo crazy. So we got out of that.
Paden: Been been down that road myself. Yeah.
Tom: and then, um, uh. You know, and then, and then we found our way into the self-storage
business.
So we, we built a self-storage company. Uh, we bought about $55 million of, of self-storage
assets from like 2019 to 20, well, to the current time. And, uh, you know, we've definitely learned
some hard lessons there because as the, um, interest rates went running way up which really
cut [00:06:00] off the residential real estate market, which.
Subsequently, you know, cut off a demand for self storage. So that business, we had to learn
some things the hard way too. Uh, but thankfully, you know, we've got things, you know, kind of,
uh, headed in the right direction, uh, with that portfolio now. But, um, and along the way too, we,
we've played in the, uh, short term rental business.
So we have a small portfolio of, uh, of short term rentals. that, you know, initially we're throwing
off some really good cash flow and kind of the COVID, you know, immediate post COVID
timeframe and now those have kind of come back to earth. So it's, you know, it's, everything sort
of has its timing. Yeah. Everything kind of has its timing and its cycle and this and that, but, you
know, we've, I wouldn't change anything for the world. Um, you know, with all the failures, you
know, definitely had, Some outsize, success. So, in a good spot now where, um, I've, I've kind of
transitioned out of our self storage business.
I was the chief investment officer there for five years, and [00:07:00] my newest venture is, uh,
looking for deals for myself, uh, to invest in. And I figure, well, you know, I've got, I've developed
this network of trusted. Partners, trusted operators in various asset classes, multi-family
apartments, self-storage, of course, uh, mobile home parks, private lending, things like that.
So I'm looking to place my capital in those types of opportunities. I figure why not bring along
these investors who I've, uh, worked with over the years and bring them into these deals as well.
And then I can go to my operator partners. Say, Hey, you know, I'm not bringing you a check for
50 or a hundred thousand.
I'm gonna bring you a check for a million, let's say. So would you mind giving me, instead of a, a
seven pref and a and a 70 30 split, can we do, an eight pref and an 80 20 split? And they'll say,
sure. Because as an operator, [00:08:00] like they wanna focus on operating and finding deals
and operating those deals, they're, you know, a lot for a lot of 'em, raising capital.
is challenging and kind of a, it takes their eye off the ball, right? So I'm doing them a service and
I'm doing my investors a service. So of course, you know, I create a little spread in the middle
there for the good guy and.
Paden: Yeah. For the good guy putting the deal. Well, I mean, you're putting it together, right?
Tom: Yeah, exactly. So, but the, but the investors actually end up making out better
economically going through me to get to that deal than
Paden: you can negotiate it,
Tom: to the operator directly. That's exactly right. So long. That's my long, uh, long-winded
background.
Paden: Yeah. That's cool, Tom. That's awesome. You know, like, you know, I think it's really
interesting, you know, you made the comment about, having, uh, I would call it, what a quote
unquote, normal-ish childhood. Right?
Um, and, and yeah, it's true when you say that, you know, almost an entrepreneurship, that's
kind of a disadvantage, really.
Like, you know, 'cause I'm, I'm in, you know, I'm in several different [00:09:00] business groups.
The more and more, successful entrepreneurs. I mean, I'm like, we're all just messed up.
Tom: Yeah,
Paden: As in what? By that I mean just like we had some dramatic things happen and now, now
good entrepreneurs have healed that or worked through that and whatever and and have
harnessed that, but it really is like that.
You know, that drives a whole lot of entrepreneurs to go, go, go, go,
Tom: harness it and use it for fuel, right? Like, like, uh, Dan Martel, he is a very popular guy out
there. Like, he talks very openly about his A DHD and he was in jail as a kid, and then, so he
found entrepreneurship as a way to kind of channel that energy in a good way, so,
Paden: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. And that's, you know, that's, yeah, that's definitely the
game, you know, if you really learning, you know, jump into the game of entrepreneurship, and
treat it like a game. I was talking to my 9-year-old daughter last night of just like, Hey honey, you
know, daddy really likes to play the game of business.
Right? And, and like trying to, you know, trying to associate that with her so she could
understand, but like, oh, he's playing a game and he's trying to get good at it and, and that kind
of thing, [00:10:00] which was. Which is a really neat conversation, but side note, but take us, to,
that oh 8, 0 9, I knew when you said I was going in a real estate in oh six and I you said yikes
immediately.
Tom: yeah, yeah.
Paden: tell us what kind of like, I mean, that had to be, dramatic for you, right? Like what kind of
mindset shifts or how did you, how'd you get, how'd you climb out of that hole?
Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Good question. It was, it was, uh, definitely a whole, it was definitely like a
reality check because. You know, here I am, like to that point, right? I had, uh, great education,
great corporate background, surrounded by these amazing people who were, you know. They
kept making themselves very, very, very wealthy along, along their path.
And so I figured, oh, this is gonna be, you know, this is gonna be a piece of cake.
Paden: up.
Tom: You know, I'm, I've got the MBA, I've got the experience, you know, just put me out into
anything. I'll, I'll do great, you know. but like I said, it was, it was [00:11:00] really, um, it was a
real challenge to. Kind of sit there and realize like, I don't have these skills that I need to be
successful in this, in this world.
Um, so, you know, when you're in business and you're doing that thing, like you, you know, you
one set of mentors, right? And you know, you do the textbooks and you're learning all that stuff.
But what I found was that in entrepreneurial life, like. I needed a whole new set of, of mentors
and, and people to look up to.
So, um, it was around about that time, like I started listening to Darren Hardy and Jim Rohn.
Paden: I, I saw that book over your shoulder. There
you
not
how
Tom: that's right. And then, yep. And then reading, reading all the books. Right. So I prob I read
a ton of books and, and just to, just to kind of make that shift. And I started going to the. To the
real estate and investor, meetups here locally.
And then I started, you know, traveling to go to the, to the real good ones and, um, and just kind
of [00:12:00] scraping things together is. Best I could, you know, thankfully my, my wife, uh, was
working, so we were able to at least keep the lights on, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't
sustainable. Um, and so, yeah, it was, it was just finding those peoples, those, those, those
people, those voices, that really resonated with me.
And, and even, um, locally, like I, had some guys I ended up meeting up with. On a regular basis
who, you know, we were all, everyone got smoked, right? So we were all in the same boat, like
trying to figure out what was, what was next. And so I, I, I feel like it was, you know, surrounding
myself with people who were like, man, this sucks, but you know, there's this opportunity out
there and there's that and letting this and that.
And so it was good being around those kinds of. People who were, you know, still looking
forward and, and grinding and, and they weren't giving up. Like I had, I have a friend of mine,
Greg, and he would, he did, kind of had the same path as me, except he was like a tech guy
and [00:13:00] he came outta the tech world and he's like, I'm never going back to that.
I gotta figure something out. And so I think, you know, just being around those people and. You
know, listening to those, those positive voices and, you know, because everyone, everyone
goes, goes through something. I mean, if you're, if you're around long enough, right? You're
gonna go through something, there's a hundred percent chance that you're gonna get, that
you're gonna get smacked in the face.
Right. You
Paden: Yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's the entry fee. A lot of this stuff, I mean, it just comes
with a territory. Like,
um, there's gonna be days you just get punched in the mouth and that is what it is, you know,
metaphor speaking, right. But, it's never, it's never gonna be that straight arrow. And I love, you
know, I love you talking about reading and podcast and mentorship and, and whatever.
And the awesome thing, very similar path. You know, I started my business in like 2014, but I
would say it still even took me a couple years to even. into the, maybe the entrepreneurship and
self-development kind of world. the awesome thing about today, it's like, it's all like [00:14:00]
free on the internet or like, you know, an audible book cost a couple bucks or like, it's, the
information is very accessible, right?
You can get access to these crazy mentors, right? Through books and speeches and YouTube
and, and, and it's all free on the internet and, and it's. I credit people like, early days of like Jim,
Jim Rohn, who's a very motivated love Jim Rohn. I like this just, I used to just listen to his
YouTube video.
I mean, the guy's been dead for 20 years, but like, listen to his YouTube videos and, and just sit
there and do that all day long and it's gonna help change your mindset and understand the
world a little bit better, in my opinion.
Tom: And I ended up, uh, I ended up paid with a, with a, with an iPod. Not to date myself pretty
badly, but I had, I had an iPod that was full of all these great, like books and interviews and stuff.
Like, I, I got it from the, when I was in the Darren Hardy community, and so, you know, I'd be, I'd
be
Paden: a great
Tom: I'd be out walking, I'd be at the gym, I'd be, you know, and so I'm just stuffing my
[00:15:00] brain through my ears, you know, with all this great information and these, and these
great insights and these, and these interviews with these entrepreneurs and all the crap that
they went through and what they did to get out of it and all that.
So, so, yeah, for sure. So the, the, information's out there, just, you just gotta go grab it.
Paden: you gotta want that and do that. And it's, it's not like, oh, you know, listen to a book, it's
gonna change your life. I mean, you know, I, I would tell you there's probably one paragraph in
every book that like, certainly does have the value to change your life, right?
Like, I read a book and I'm looking for like two golden nuggets in it, right? And,
Tom: That's right.
Paden: it's amazing. I, I figured that out, I guess somewhat early enough in my life to where it's
like. the first time I can remember that happening to me, I was reading the Four Hour Work
Week by Tim Ter, Tim Ferris, you know, very book a little, a little while back.
But, the concept of like, okay, you know, if you only had four hours of work, what would you do?
And, and just the concept and then all the tactical things he had in there, like five things in there
that probably made me, I mean, definitely made [00:16:00] me six figures over the next couple
years by reading, you know, and grabbing information out of that
Tom: Mm-hmm.
Paden: I guess I want people to realize that
Tom: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, and I think what's important too about books and information, all
that stuff, it's like, it can be extremely overwhelming,
Paden: Oh yeah,
Tom: So what I, what I encourage people to do is, um, is Find a voice that really resonates with
you and go deep with that. Right. So like who, not how Dr.
Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan. Right. They, they, I've read all their, you know, I'm going deep with
all of their books. In fact, just this morning I downloaded their, his new one, um, scaling. Yeah.
Paden: I listened. I literally listened to that entire book on a plane yesterday.
Tom: Oh, did you? Okay, cool. Yeah, so, so, you know, a lot of people go like super wide, right?
They go mile wide and inch deep. I, I think it's important, like if you find someone that really
resonates with you, just go deep with them and, you know, a handful of others and, and just, you
know, spend a lot of time there because, you know, you could spend your whole life, you know,
Paden: Bouncing around and Yeah. Yeah. And, [00:17:00] and, and that's, that's an issue for a
lot of people too, where they, you know, it's, maybe there's fear and whatnot and then they just
sit here and listen to this stuff all the time and they're really just setting there, taking in
information but never actually implementing or doing anything with it.
Um, just out of fear or, or whatever that is. And yeah, I do love the advice too, of going deep into
somebody and actually. This is totally a coincidence, but you know, I, I told my business group
over this year that I was gonna go deep into Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan's stuff, and I've written,
you know, three main books, like five times a piece this year
Tom: Exactly.
Paden: over and over and deep and like, yeah.
I mean, their stuff is amazing. Yeah. Dan Sullivan, s Hoen is Ben Hardy. Yeah. The, yeah, the
Science of Scaling book he just came out with was amazing. I was taking notes the entire time
on my 10 hour flight back from Brazil.
Tom: Cool. Oh, nice. Oh, wow. Yeah, that, there you go. That's a, that's a, that's a great way to
use your time, uh, when you're, you know, you, you're trapped on a plane. You can't
Paden: You can't do anything else, right? Like you really don't even have internet service. You
can't do [00:18:00] anything but sit there and you
know,
Tom: That's right.
Paden: I love downloading books and podcasts
Tom: Get those books going. You know, get your journal out as those ideas hit you as you're
reading and just, you know,
Paden: It's, uh, it's amazing practice to, to lean into and, and people, you know, and like today,
today's world, it's so easy. It's like you got car time, you got, you know what I mean? There,
there's lots of ways to fit, this information into your life. Like, you know, without having to
change, you know, a bunch of, a bunch of stuff.
So.
Tom: Yep. That's, uh, I think when, uh, Darren Hardy says when you're, uh, hands are busy, but
your mind is free, you know, put some good information in your head, you
Paden: Yeah, for sure. yeah,
Tom: so like if you're, if you're at the gym or you know, you're out walking or whatever, if you're
busy doing something, you know, you can always have
Paden: yeah. What I would tell you is, and I, another reason why you should go deep into
somebody is that, you know, a a lot of these things are the same principles just being talked
about by different people, and that's why you should find somebody that you connect with and,
you know what I mean, that, that you really enjoy.
with us, with, [00:19:00] you know, Ben Hardy, um, it, it, and you can listen to that stuff over and
over again because like. You, you really need to be reminded of this stuff constantly. It's not, it's
not like, oh, you learn it and you know it. It's, it's these constant soaking this stuff in so you, you
know, that you can recall it and it comes to mind as these situations come up and the whole
bottom falls out,
you know,
Tom: Yeah.
Paden: important to just soak in that
Tom: And every time you listen to it or read it again, uh, you know, you, you, you're gonna be in
a different place. So you'll probably perceive things and, and hear things differently. Um, or read
things differently than, than when your first or second, you know, then last time you read it, right.
So, uh, so yeah, it's, I think it's, some people are like, why would you read the book, you know,
multiple times? It's like, well, if you read
Paden: because I'm not the same
Tom: right. Exactly.
Paden: Right.
Tom: You're changing, you're running different challenges or successes along the way and
you're, you know, and, and so yeah, you, you hear things [00:20:00] differently, uh, as you, as
you kind of move forward.
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Paden: Yeah, you know, real estate's obviously your, expertise, right? So like what do you go
about, like identifying opportunities or, you know, what, what is your, business model there?
Like, what do you do?
Tom: Sure. Yeah. So. Great question. So over the years, you know, I've definitely made some
investments that I, I, I think, you know, worked out well and I've made some that didn't work, that
didn't work out so well. Right? So over, over the years, learning from those mistakes, I've
actually developed, um, a system where, It's a due diligence system for investors who are
looking at, uh, getting into alternative investments. Um, I mean, it ac it could actually work for
any investment, uh, but we actually call it, uh, the Safe Investing Method. So SAFE is [00:22:00]
an acronym, so don't say, oh, don't it, investing with safe, plenty of risk.
But if you use the Safe method, you can de-risk these deals and, and, and ask the right
questions so you can get into 'em.
Paden: What
is it? Warren Buffet says, it's only risky if you don't know what you're doing, right?
Tom: That's right. Yes. Yes.
Paden: I mean, that's why you get into business. 'cause you get into it, you study it, and it's like,
okay, this isn't risky, because I have a lot more information than other
Tom: It's so funny. When I'm, when I'm on stage and I present this, I actually have a slide that's
from the, that's quote, that quote from Warren Buffet. Uh, but just real quick, the Safe Method is,
um, it's SAFE acronym, so S stands for sponsors. Who is this dude you're doing business with,
right? You need to learn as much as you can about them.
You know, what's their background, you know, what's their track record? Find out about their
team, you know, and do you click with them, right? have them talk about their successes, their
failures, you know, things they've learned. That sort of thing. Go deep with them and for God's
sake, Google them [00:23:00] and find out like, you know, maybe there's something in their past
that Yeah.
That maybe they didn't bring up. So if I had done that, this is early on, this is, this is pretty early
on in my entrepreneurial career 'cause I did invest with others. Uh, at the time as I started
making some money, I lost 50 grand because I didn't Google the guy's name. If I had Google the
guy's name, I would've seen.
He was a con artist and he, and he rips people off. So there you go. That is the price of
admission, right? You got your money's worth for listening today. Google your sponsor's name,
right?
Paden: And as silly as that sounds like
Tom: right. In my defense. this was, you know, this was, 14, 15 years ago before Googling was
like the first thing that comes to
Paden: yeah. Yeah.
Tom: um, okay, so a stands for asset. What is the asset that you're actually investing in? Is it is
an apartment building and what market is it in? What are the dynamics of that market? Is it a
growing market? Is it shrinking market? You know, there are there in [00:24:00] infrastructure
investments being made there.
Um, you know, are there big, big investor investments coming in from like tech companies and
all this? So, so you want to understand the asset you're investing in. Um, which, you know, it
sounds very elementary and it is, but a lot of people, you'd be surprised like they're investing in
crazy stuff and they can't explain it to their kid.
You can't explain it to your 9-year-old or, you know, your, their grandmother or whatever. So
maybe you want to. Second guess it if you can't really explain it to a, to a friend.
Paden: You should never, I, you know, as a guy that works in the tax and space, yeah. I tell the
people all the time, you should never invest in anything you don't understand.
Tom: That's right. That's right. And then F is, uh, stands for financials. So are the financial
projections reasonable? Has the sponsor delivered on these kinds of projections in the past?
what are the ratios? I'm a financial analyst by training, so I can get a little nerdy with it. But you
know, you look at the.
The different financial ratios, your net operating income and all that good [00:25:00] stuff. Um,
and then you wanna know the tax implications of the deal. Um, and, you know, are the
projections reasonable? Are they projecting, you know, 50% rent increases? It's like, how are
you gonna do that? I don't care how good an operating you are.
Paden: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, and yeah, another warning to people, like they can put whatever they want on
there. So you need a
Tom: That's right. Yeah. And, and you need to be able to ask these questions. And if they're, if
they're good, they're gonna, they will have done a sensitivity analysis where they say, oh, well if
the rents only go up by this much, you're still gonna get this, you know, X return. And if you're
okay with like that downside scenario, then it's a, a deal that maybe you wanna move forward
with.
Lastly, Payton is, E is for exit. How do you get out of this thing, right? You can't go to
schwab.com and click, click, click and sell, sell your interest in like a multifamily syndication. It
just doesn't work that way. So you need to, as an investor, know that going in, uh, that your
money's gonna be tied up for [00:26:00] whatever, three years, five years.
Some deals are 10 years, uh, especially if it's like a development kind of deal. Other deals might
only be one year. so you just have to go in understanding like how long is your money gonna be
tied up and what needs to happen for you to get your money back and your return. Are they
gonna refi the property?
Are they selling the property? Is it a 10 31? You know, all that stuff.
Paden: I love your, you know, your acronym there, the safe acronym, right? Like, and, I think the
important thing there, the thing is like you have a process, right? You have a process to
evaluate. Um, real estate deals and, even people like, you know, Charlie Munger and Warren
Buffet and like the greatest investors of all time, they develop a, a literal checklist of questions to
ask themselves.
We're evaluating in an investment and these guys are the best of all time. Right? You, oh, they
don't even need a checklist. No, they know you need a checklist, right? Because like, the
amazing thing is when you start. Evaluate an investment, people will, you know, they get their
emotions tied into it. They fall in love with it.
It's like, okay, I [00:27:00] want to do this right, and, and you, it's amazing what all you'll
overlook. Like maybe not Google in a guy's name because you know you're excited and you,
you know, you just wanna jump in and get going. Right.
Tom: Sure. Yeah. And that's, and, and just back to the beginning, ask for sponsor. Like, a lot of
people are like, oh, well, you know, my buddy invested with him, or I met him and he's a cool
guy, or. You know, he's an Eagles fan too, you know, and so you gotta go deeper than that. And
because, and I know some people might hesitate, they're like, well, you know, I don't wanna ask
these personal questions or whatever.
Well, if you're putting up 50 or a hundred grand or what, you
Paden: you're going into business with them.
Tom: Yeah, you're going into business with 'em. Exactly. You have that gives you the right to ask
those questions and, you know, you can run background checks if you want. So anyway, um, I, I
wouldn't hesitate, you know, to ask, to ask those questions, um,
Paden: And you know, and the interesting thing is, and you know, I have clients that, I come in
and be the bad guy for 'em too though. So it's like, oh, lemme account, you know, I'll come in
[00:28:00] like, you know, 'cause I'm separated, I'll come in and just like. Try to poke holes and
everything.
Right. Um, so, you know, that's, that's one good thing about having some
Tom: Yeah, absolutely. You can say, ah, you know, wow, my accountant told me I gotta ask you
these questions.
Paden: Yeah. People throw me under the bus all the time,
Tom: right. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's
Paden: but it's, man, and I've been in business long enough and, and dealing with, you know,
real estate investors and, and whatnot. Like, yeah, I've seen these things go bad and I've seen
'em go really bad. and a lot of times it is, you know.
operator issues and, and, you know, maybe even things in their own personal life that's spills
over into everything else. And, and that's, you know, that's not abnormal, um, at all.
Tom: No, no, it's not. It's not. So yeah, ask. Ask tons of questions. And here's the thing too,
Paden like. If you're an investor and you're asking questions of the sponsor, you're looking at the
the asset, you're looking at the financials, you're looking at the exit. If any of those things, at any
time in your process, something doesn't feel right, doesn't [00:29:00] smell right, whatever.
Just stop. 'cause you know what? There's plenty of other deals out there. You don't have to feel
like, oh my God, I gotta jump on this deal, or I'm gonna miss it. Don't ever feel that way. There's
always gonna be another deal.
Paden: There's plenty of operators out there sending out pitch decks, trying to raise money. So
Tom: Yes,
Paden: feel like you have to move fast. I get five of 'em a week in my email,
Tom: I, yeah, I'm sure. Yep.
Paden: so, turning back to you a little bit more Tom, like, You talk about mastermind groups and
the communities and stuff like that. Can you, can you speak to the importance of that in, in your
journey and being around, you know, great people like that?
Tom: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean it's, you get a great. Return on your investment. I think at this
point in my career, I've probably spent probably 300 grand on different mastermind groups and
going to conferences and the travel and the this and the that. But I tell you what, it's, it's really.
Helped me grow my business, helped me be a better investor.
It's helped me be a better steward of [00:30:00] other people's money. Um, and it's been, and it's
given me the opportunity to meet these operators so that through Eagle Capital Investments,
which is my, my investment company, you know, I can find these. Operators who I've come to
know, like, and trust, and I've met them in person because I'm going these events and these
masterminds and these conferences and such.
So if it, if it wasn't for those. Uh, there's different groups, there's different channels, like, you
know, then you're just out there flailing around by yourself. And, and that's just a, that's not a
good recipe for success. Uh, you want to surround yourself with the right people and, and get
the information.
'cause uh, you know, that's where I hear about these, these great books. Or, Hey, you gotta go
to this conference, or, Hey, this podcast, or whatever, you know? you hear about it from, from
your, your comrades who are out there, you know, banging around, trying to figure things out as
well. So, um, it's hugely, hugely [00:31:00] valuable for
Paden: Yeah, totally. My experience, you know, I've spent. A lot of money. I'll tell you that in the
last, uh, five years for sure. And in, in self-development and, and groups and, and business
groups and, and, I couldn't even, I mean, a massive return on all that, right? Like, and, and, and
that's part of, it's like you gotta, you gotta realize that that's, you know, it's almost like tuition, um,
into, to a school or, or, or whatnot.
And like, I love, you know, I don't know if you know Alex, Rosie, but I love the way
he puts it
Tom: Sure.
Paden: We all have a bunch of ignorance, debt, right? Like
Tom: Right.
Paden: it costs you a million dollars a year to not know how to make a million dollars a year,
right? And, and, and by, you know, you, you either you learn that through time and experience or
you can buy it from
Tom: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Paden: he's like, I wanted to spend all my money as fast as possible to buy the experience from
people around me to get there as fast as possible. Right?
Tom: Yeah.
Paden: And, and so it, it's trying to shift your mindset a little bit and understanding that, it's
literally an [00:32:00] investment, right? It's, uh, that you're hoping to get a return of, right, A
return of value.
obviously you need to get around the right people and the people that are probably, you know,
maybe even, you know. Maybe make you a little uncomfortable, but maybe you're even a few
steps ahead of you. so that's been my best return on investment is going into groups where the
people actually made me uncomfortable, where I'm like, why am I in
this
room?
Right?
And, that will stretch you and move you the quickest in my experience.
Tom: yeah. A hundred percent. I guess our buddy, our mutual buddy, Jim Rohn, says, if you're
the smartest person in your circle of friends, you know you need to, you need.
Paden: You're,
Tom: Big, bigger, better friends.
Paden: Yes.
Yeah. And it's, well, I mean, Ben Hardy talks about the, the same stuff where it's just like, I
mean, I think, and it's one of his first books, the Will Willpower Doesn't Work. I
Tom: Mm-hmm.
Paden: Um, the whole thing is, talks about how is you're, you're completely shaped by your
environment.
and, and way more than any human being will ever believe about themselves, right? Like, you
Tom: that's right.
Paden: you can't sep a separate a human from like the context [00:33:00] they're living in. Like,
it's you, you're literally not in the same, and, and, and, and the, the empowering thing is there.
It's like you can, while, while you're infected dramatically about your environment, you can
consciously change things in your environment that will naturally change that.
And, and joining a mastermind group is a, in a perfect example of that, right? If all your friends
don't care about business or anything like that, well, you're gonna be a lot more like them if you
get around a bunch of entrepreneurs where you're naturally going to start fitting in over there.
And it's, it's just realizing that, um, taking control of your environment is, is, a very powerful thing
to do.
And even as simple as redesigning your environment, um, you know, from decorations to
whatnot, people really understand how powerful that can be.
Tom: sure. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, you're trying to lose weight. Get the cookies
outta the pantry and throw 'em in the trash.
Paden: Yeah, it's the same things. Like you'll hear people that, like, they'll make the tiniest
change in their environment. It's like, okay, um, I'm not saying I can't have [00:34:00] cookies,
right? I'm not banning cookies for my life, but I can't have them at home.
Tom: right,
Paden: And, and, and so nothing like, you don't have a rule that you can't eat cookies.
You just gotta drive down the street to go get 'em. Guess what, you're not gonna do that. Right?
Like if you, you put a little friction in between, right? Like where it's just more inconvenient to
actually go do it than it is to not, right? Like, so it's thinking through things like that. It's like we
are so not rational human beings.
Like we think we're that we need to set up our environment that just like defaults us into doing
the things we want to do.
Tom: that's right. That's right.
Paden: you're gonna eat the cookie if it's there, right?
Tom: You roll, roll out of bed. First thing you do, put on your gym clothes. Don't even think about
it.
Paden: Yeah. And it's, it's just designing it in a way that like your default, like the easiest thing to
do is actually the activity, you know, you've consciously chosen. Right. Um, yeah. Getting deep
into that stuff, for
Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, it's spot on. It's, it makes a huge difference [00:35:00] and, uh, I
don't know, maybe I, maybe I took it to an extreme, but, uh, I actually got divorced because I felt
like my, my wife, who we were married for a long time, but I felt like she was, and
Paden: You guys weren't going down the same path, right?
Tom: I am sorry. Like I said, this might be a little extreme, but Yeah.
I felt like, you know, I was, I was growing, I was learning, I was reading the books, I was going
and doing things and, and she was not, and she was not supportive of it. She was not. Pushing
me, you know, so, so sadly, we, yeah, we ended up growing apart and, and I, for my own good,
for my own growth, for my own potential, I had to make the hard decision to, to leave that
relationship.
And so I'm married again to a woman who does lift me up. We lift each other up, we wanna
grow together. We're, in fact, we're doing this, uh. This business, Eagle Capital Investments,
we're doing it together. Um, and so we're making a kind, a lifestyle business for, for us to grow
and learn and [00:36:00] push and go to the events and learn from the people.
And so we're, yeah, so we're, uh, super excited about it. It's, it's been great. And we're, look,
we're looking forward to, uh, you know, we've got the, we've got some pretty lofty goals. So
we're, uh, we're looking forward to achieving 'em together.
Paden: Yeah, that. And then that's awesome. And, I'm in a mastermind group what I really love
about it is that it isn't just business focused. It is family and marriage and, and, and everything.
Because knowing that like, those things don't live in silos, right?
Like they all, like, you don't have your family life and then your business. Act like those don't
affect each other. right.
Um, thank you, you know, for being vulnerable and sharing that, you know, it's, um, people do
grow apart, right? Because, and by that is, you know, you guys had very different visions of what
your future was.
Right. And, obviously we all get married, you know, generally all get married when we're young
and like obviously we have no idea what we want or what, you know what I mean? It's amazing.
We get married and like you, you have no idea even who you are, right. And, um, let [00:37:00]
alone like, you know, how are these two people gonna live the rest of their life together?
Um, and I, you know, I'm, I'm lucky enough to have a wife that, um. we got married both young
and, and, um, but, but what we do have in common is that we both want to get better, right?
And, and that is, you know, we, we share that vision and, you know, we share that vision of just
growth and development and, and you know, especially being examples for our kids that, that
maybe that we didn't necessarily, you know, I'm not trashing our parents, but like we didn't.
We always have. Right? And, and so it's, I think it's very important, that like, and seriously in, in
our mastermind group, we were just like, you know, the ultimate mastermind is your marriage,
right? Like, that is your closest relationship.
Tom: That's right.
Paden: good luck growing a business if the other spouse doesn't want any a part of it.
It's like fighting this with both hands behind, tied behind your back. You're, you're really not going
if that's, you know,
Tom: So Jennifer and I, we did a, we did a weekend, kind of retreat. We did a vi, we did a vivid
vision, uh, retreat [00:38:00] if, if you're familiar with Cameron Harold and the whole vivid vision
idea. And so we basically sat for, you know, two days and just like on paper, on like the big
easel, you know, the big.
Paden: do we want?
Tom: Posted, what do we want? What does we want it to look like? What do we, what do we
want our health to be? Like? What do we want our family dynamic to be like, you know, what do
we want our business lives to be like? What, you know, what, how much golf do we wanna play?
How much, you know, all these kinds of things.
So, so yeah, that was like, uh, my ex wife would've, she would've looked at me like I was crazy if
I had suggested we do something like that. So, um, yeah. So it's been, it's been great.
Paden: and the amazing thing is, yeah, we, we nerd out on exactly the same stuff. Like we had,
we went to, you know, our group went to, uh, to con I went to the Dominican and you know, we
had our whole families down there on a resort. So everybody brought the kids, everything, you
know, the kids were doing were do like entrepreneur activities all week and, and like, you know,
them doing stuff.
And then also it's, yeah, you know, me and my wife sitting there talking about like. We literally
spent a bunch of time talking about like [00:39:00] who's cho, who's responsible for what chores
in the household. And, and, and literally all that's to do is like, you know, somebody needs to
own it. And, it's just very clear about that, right?
And, and it's not like, okay, my wife owns the laundry so I don't have to do it. It's like, okay, now
ultimately the buck stops with her. Not that I can't help and whatever, but. it's those types of
things and it's just getting clear around all that stuff and the communication around all that stuff.
So everybody's on the same page and it's amazing how many less problems you have. and
here's the thing, we even got into intimacy and scheduling that. So
Tom: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Hey,
Paden: I'm not, you know, a lot of people have freaked out, um, and I'm not necessarily telling
you to do that, but, the people that do do it, um, say it's a, it's a good idea.
Tom: I, it's, I agree. It's, I, it's important. You gotta, you gotta lay it out all out on the table.
Paden: Yes. A hundred percent. Hundred percent. So you a question, you know, a question for
you, Tom, what, you know, what does, like true wealth and [00:40:00] freedom mean to you?
Tom: you know, wealth and freedom is just, it's a tool for me to, um, just live, live my best life
and keep growing and keep challenging, and keep making mistakes and keep learning. Uh, I
don't think it's like a stat, it's not a static. Kind of thing, right? I mean, plenty of people have had
wealth and lost it because, you know, they, they took their eye off the ball or, or what have you.
So, and then, you know, the, the freedom that that provides, it allows me to be the husband that
I wanna be and the dad that I wanna be, and the friend that I wanna be, and the golfer that I
wanna be. And the musician. I'm actually a musician too. So, um, you know, allows me to do
those things. And on top of that. It's not just about me. And this is one, one thing I, I tell young
entrepreneurs, 'cause a lot of entrepreneurs are like, oh, I need to find out what my why is.
What's my why? Oh, well what my why is my family? It's like. Of course your why is your family,
but if you wanna be a successful [00:41:00] entrepreneur, you need to think a lot bigger than
your family because yes, you wanna bless your family, you wanna provide for your family, but
you need to be providing and blessing others as well.
So I've started scholarships. Um, I've, you know, I've built houses in Mexico. I support those
missionaries, financially. And then I've been doing some mentoring of college kids who are. You
know, in the business and they're interested in entrepreneurship. And so, you know, at this point
in my career, paid, like I've got, you know, I got a lot of stuff up here that I need to get out and
get out to other people so that they can get further faster because it's not like it giving them that
takes anything away from me or anybody else, right.
It's just, it's, it's me being able to, you know, hopefully help someone avoid the dumb mistakes
that I made,
Paden: Right.
Tom: along the way, get. Get further faster so that they can go and they can bless others
Paden: You know, that's the whole story of like human evolution, right? [00:42:00] Like, the
whole point is the next generation could go further and faster than you, right? You know, it's like
we have mentors like Jim Roh and all these guys on the internet. Well, like Jim Rohn didn't have
Jim Rohn.
Right.
Tom: That's,
Paden: and the further we push the ball, well, you know, our kids or the next generation or
whoever gets to start there and push it further. Right. you know, some people like to, complain
about the younger generation coming up and like, they, they did all this so fast or whatever, but
it's like, that's the whole point.
That is literally the point, right? And, and, and literally, you know, and, and like I love you talk
about, you know, you gotta have a bigger vision yourself, a hundred percent. Like, um, you
know, you and your family, yes, you take care of you and your family, but you know, you, you
start to actually grow something of some size and you have some success, like that becomes
monetary alone becomes a whole lot less motivating.
You know, as you and it, you know, there, there's people listening and they'll say, oh, well easy
for you to say that. Like it's true. Literally everybody that has done it will say the exact [00:43:00]
same thing. That like, it's not like, oh, you're gonna find this ultimate happy spot because you've,
you know, you've made a million dollars or 2 million, or whatever you think that number is.
It's, it's not true. there is no magic number it's really an internal thing, and, you gotta find
something that's, bigger than you that, really brings emotion to you, that you're passionate
about, you know, some problem that you want to help solve. Now, it could be something in your
business, or like you said, it could be you have this amazing business, it makes a bunch of
money, and then you, you know, you do something else with it.
Like, I don't know, maybe single mothers is a passion of yours, or whatever that is. it's finding
that passion and that will. You find that will really fuel you to, to get after it and, and, and, you
know,
Tom: That's right,
Paden: value and help people.
Tom: a hundred percent. Yep. So it's about significance. You know, you gotta, you wanna get to
success for sure. But then beyond success is, is significance. So you
Paden: Yeah. A hundred percent. Well, Tom, I appreciate This's been a great conversation. Um,
what's, you know, what's the best way people can get to know more about you, your company,
and, and just kind of everything you do.[00:44:00]
Tom: Sure. Yeah. Paden, this has been great buddy. Uh, it's a lot of fun. Uh, yeah. So I'm Tom
Dunkel. I'm the managing principal at Eagle Capital Investments. You can find
me@investwitheagle.com where you can pick up a copy of my book. Uh, it's the Wealth Builders
Playbook and, um. It's got all, it's got some stories in there about, you know, my successes and
failures and it has talks in depth about the safe method, which we talked about earlier.
And it just talks about, you know, how you can unshackle yourself from your golden handcuffs
and, uh, you know, it always happens Paden, right? There's always some disruption. You know,
in the early two thousands it was the internet, right? And then, and now, you know, it's, it's crypto
and it's, uh, blockchain and of course artificial intelligence.
Well, all of those things can disrupt your, career, right? So if you're a high achiever, high
performer, whatever your, you know, your things are going great for you right now, there's going
to [00:45:00] be a disruption
that's going to mess with your life. And so what I try to help people do is. Build passive channels
for wealth and income so that when, not if, but when those disruptions come along, they can
weather the storm in style because they all, their wealth and their income is not tied up just in
their business or in their. Or in their practice or in their hefty W2 job. Yeah. So you gotta gotta
have these other income and wealth streams, um, to,
Paden: A hundred
Tom: balance that out. So that's, that's what I'm all about. And so go to invest with eagle.com,
grab my book and I'd love to talk to you.
Paden: That's awesome. Tom, any, uh, any parting words of advice?
Tom: Uh, just, hey, just go for it. Get yourself around the right people. Find a great niche to go
after.
Paden: I,
Tom: then just get educated. Go deep.
Paden: That's awesome, Tom.
Appreciate you, listeners, we'll
catch you next time.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. [00:46:00] If you found it valuable,
please rate, review, and share it. That is the best way to help us build this and reach more
people as we're trying to accomplish our goal of help creating more healthy, wealthy, and wise
entrepreneurs. You can follow us on social media by searching for me Paden Squires.
Or going to padensquires.com on the website and social media. We're always sharing tips of
personal growth and there we can actually interact. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks guys.
